Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Framebuilders Thinking about a custom frame? Lugged vs Fillet Brazed. Different Frame materials? Newvex or Pacenti Lugs? why get a custom Road, Mountain, or Track Frame? Got a question about framebuilding? Lets discuss framebuilding at it's finest.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-31-07, 07:05 PM   #1
kirbyx
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 57
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Anyone know why Litespeed gave up on integrated headsets? ( no guesses please!)

Anyone know why Litespeed gave up on integrated headsets? ( no guesses please!)
kirbyx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-07, 08:00 PM   #2
Nessism
Senior Member
 
Nessism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Torrance, CA
Bikes: Homebuilt steel
Posts: 2,333
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirbyx
Anyone know why Litespeed gave up on integrated headsets? ( no guesses please!)
Because they suck!
__________________
Becareful buying/selling bike parts on-line. I learned the hard way. :(

Good/Bad Trader Listing
Nessism is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-07, 08:10 PM   #3
hoss10
"Big old guy"
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Bikes: Trure North Touring, Cannondale Killer V
Posts: 240
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Read the Chris King website.
hoss10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-07, 05:20 PM   #4
seeker333
__________
 
seeker333's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Bikes: yes!
Posts: 3,168
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
interesting article.

http://www.chrisking.com/pdfs/Int%20...0Explained.pdf
seeker333 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-07, 07:56 AM   #5
huckinggenius
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: DTL GA
Bikes: 07 enduro, 06 P street, 06 demo 8, 05 stumpjumper, 05 planet x trials bike, 05 hemi
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
because

Because the head tubes kept coming back broken. They couldn't warranty something like that that kept breaking. I worked for Lynskey for a while(the Litespeed family's new company) and that was a question that I've had to answer before
huckinggenius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-07, 07:00 AM   #6
Neil H
Senior Member
 
Neil H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: London, UK
Bikes: Billato, Ritchey, Olmo
Posts: 47
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
An overtightened or loose headset will wreck the headset. An overtightened or loose integrated headset will wreck the frame. What one would you rather replace?
Neil H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-07, 07:05 AM   #7
MattC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Louisiana
Bikes:
Posts: 246
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well since Litespeed used cups the wreck the frame argument holds no water. If you read the Litespeed forums that used to be on the website it was mainly due to customer feedback. They also ahd a problem on the frames the first year with the cups themselves being out of spec.
MattC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-07, 08:54 AM   #8
Neil H
Senior Member
 
Neil H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: London, UK
Bikes: Billato, Ritchey, Olmo
Posts: 47
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Well since Litespeed used cups the wreck the frame argument holds no water.
So, if they're using cups, that's not integrated.....
Just in case you missed what I said first time, here it is again:

Quote:
An overtightened or loose headset will wreck the headset. An overtightened or loose integrated headset will wreck the frame. What one would you rather replace?
Neil H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-07, 03:41 AM   #9
Mint Cycles
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Because they felt tight and in other words....like CRAP...YES all Caps for that word. No good adjustment, and it was not possible to work out any imperfections on an integrated system. That is why most everyone rolls with a KING HS, or Cane Creek.

Just my 2 cents...

Mojito

www.mintcycles.com


Quote:
Originally Posted by kirbyx
Anyone know why Litespeed gave up on integrated headsets? ( no guesses please!)
Mint Cycles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-07, 04:07 PM   #10
Thylacine
Industry Maven
 
Thylacine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Wherever good bikes are sold
Bikes: Thylacines...only Thylacines.
Posts: 2,936
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil H
So, if they're using cups, that's not integrated.....
Well, Columbus sells integrated cups that you braze into the frame. I think the best definition of 'integrated' is where the 'cups' are not designed to be removed from the frame OR are an integral part of the frame. Whether they are pressed, fusion welded or brazed into the frame is largely irrelevant.

Then again most terms in the bike industry are largely irrelevant or wrong, such as 'mitreing is actually coping', and 'compact actually means sloping'.

Speaking of irrelevant and wrong, I wonder how that frameforum website is going?
Thylacine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-07, 12:55 PM   #11
ogdmfg
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: behind the zion curtain
Bikes: build my own
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
well if the intergrated headsets don't work why does it seem that every bmx manufactuer spec their bikes with them?
ogdmfg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-07, 02:10 AM   #12
Neil H
Senior Member
 
Neil H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: London, UK
Bikes: Billato, Ritchey, Olmo
Posts: 47
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thylacine
Well, Columbus sells integrated cups that you braze into the frame....
Speaking of irrelevant and wrong, I wonder how that frameforum website is going?
So, we've moved on from TITANIUM Litespeeds to STEEL braze-on cups that convert a standard head tube to an INTEGRATED HEADSET- type head tube. Your point is?

Frameforum is doing just great, as you well know. ( My server/hosting company automatically logs IP adresses). Built any good frames lately?
Neil H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-07, 02:47 AM   #13
Neil H
Senior Member
 
Neil H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: London, UK
Bikes: Billato, Ritchey, Olmo
Posts: 47
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ogdmfg
well if the intergrated headsets don't work why does it seem that every bmx manufactuer spec their bikes with them?
OK, since we've moved on from road-going Litespeed frames to BMX (seamless jump, eh?) The differences are this:

The wall thicknesses and tube diameters used in BMX head tubes are far greater than those used in road bikes.
BMX bikes typically use straight head tubes with pressed-in races as opposed to flared head tubes found in Litespeed's and others. In other words; a different system of integration.

Typically, a BMX frame will have a head tube of 90-100mm in length. There is adequate bracing from the top and down tubes to resist deformation, or 'ovalising' of the head tube.

Typically, BMX bikes are production-line assembled. Integrated headsets allow for faster production-line assembly, the main reason for their popularity and introduction by assembly-line manufacturers.

New is not always better. Other "hip but *****" ideas include:

Biopace
10mm pitch track drivetrains
Elevated chainstays
U-brakes

Add integrated headsets to the list and you can call yourself a free thinker. Don't and you're just giving in to fashion diktat.

Last edited by Neil H; 02-12-07 at 05:58 AM.
Neil H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-07, 10:13 AM   #14
ogdmfg
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: behind the zion curtain
Bikes: build my own
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hmmm... I see your point, but I would have to say have you even looked at any of the new generation bmx frames? the are using alot of the same tubing that the road crowd uses. I know this because my new bmx framesets use the same wall thickness, the intergated headsets have an advantage of dropping over a .25 pound off of the over all weight of the completed bike.
ogdmfg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-07, 02:21 PM   #15
Neil H
Senior Member
 
Neil H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: London, UK
Bikes: Billato, Ritchey, Olmo
Posts: 47
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ogdmfg
Hmmm... I see your point, but I would have to say have you even looked at any of the new generation bmx frames? the are using alot of the same tubing that the road crowd uses. I know this because my new bmx framesets use the same wall thickness, the intergated headsets have an advantage of dropping over a .25 pound off of the over all weight of the completed bike.
Yes, but you're not using flared head tubes with a 1mm or less wall thickness are you? And you're probably using zero-stack style headsets. A different set-up altogether, and since the original post was about L-I-T-S-P-E-E-D T-I-T-A-N-I-U-M and their choice of bearing system.... well, you decide how relevant it is to the discussion to chime in about steel BMX frames. I'm sure your frames are very nice and your headsets absolutely wonderful, but that's not what the discussion was about.
Neil H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-07, 10:49 AM   #16
ogdmfg
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: behind the zion curtain
Bikes: build my own
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have been very civil on this matter, not only do I bmx frames but also road and mtn frames,where do you get off being so jaded,last time I checked this was a forum on framebuilding not being an internet bully. Oh and the topic where does it say T-I-T-A-N-I-U-M.
ogdmfg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-07, 01:21 AM   #17
Neil H
Senior Member
 
Neil H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: London, UK
Bikes: Billato, Ritchey, Olmo
Posts: 47
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ogdmfg
I have been very civil on this matter, not only do I bmx frames but also road and mtn frames,where do you get off being so jaded,last time I checked this was a forum on framebuilding not being an internet bully. Oh and the topic where does it say T-I-T-A-N-I-U-M.
What else do Litespeed make?

I'm being civil too. Being "jaded" would be to say " well, the guy is obviously talking out his a55 and hasn't engaged his brain before posting, but hey, that's OK, that's what the internet is about; misinformation. i won't bother to reply"
I hope you pay a bit more attention when you're welding.....
Neil H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-07, 12:12 PM   #18
Dubbayoo
Senior Member
 
Dubbayoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Atlanta
Bikes: Pedal Force QS3
Posts: 7,681
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I guess you told him.
Dubbayoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-07, 11:39 AM   #19
Ligero
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattC
Well since Litespeed used cups the wreck the frame argument holds no water. If you read the Litespeed forums that used to be on the website it was mainly due to customer feedback. They also ahd a problem on the frames the first year with the cups themselves being out of spec.
That is what they want you to think. I worked at Litespeed and the integrated headtubes were a problem form the beginning. The forming of the bells at the ends of the headtube along with the way it was crimped down to supposedly make it more aero overworked the very thin walled ti tubing. There was also no way to align the cups after they were pressed in the frame, so if the headtube was not straight there was not way to fix it.
Ligero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-07, 01:01 AM   #20
Neil H
Senior Member
 
Neil H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: London, UK
Bikes: Billato, Ritchey, Olmo
Posts: 47
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
The forming of the bells at the ends of the headtube along with the way it was crimped down to supposedly make it more aero overworked the very thin walled ti tubing. There was also no way to align the cups after they were pressed in the frame, so if the headtube was not straight there was not way to fix it.
I'd call that "wrecked" - before it even gets on the road!
Neil H is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:26 AM.