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  1. #1
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    Anyone know why Litespeed gave up on integrated headsets? ( no guesses please!)

    Anyone know why Litespeed gave up on integrated headsets? ( no guesses please!)

  2. #2
    Senior Member Nessism's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kirbyx
    Anyone know why Litespeed gave up on integrated headsets? ( no guesses please!)
    Because they suck!
    Becareful buying/selling bike parts on-line. I learned the hard way. :(

    Good/Bad Trader Listing

  3. #3
    "Big old guy"
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    Read the Chris King website.

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  5. #5
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    because

    Because the head tubes kept coming back broken. They couldn't warranty something like that that kept breaking. I worked for Lynskey for a while(the Litespeed family's new company) and that was a question that I've had to answer before

  6. #6
    Senior Member Neil H's Avatar
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    An overtightened or loose headset will wreck the headset. An overtightened or loose integrated headset will wreck the frame. What one would you rather replace?

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    Well since Litespeed used cups the wreck the frame argument holds no water. If you read the Litespeed forums that used to be on the website it was mainly due to customer feedback. They also ahd a problem on the frames the first year with the cups themselves being out of spec.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Neil H's Avatar
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    Well since Litespeed used cups the wreck the frame argument holds no water.
    So, if they're using cups, that's not integrated.....
    Just in case you missed what I said first time, here it is again:

    An overtightened or loose headset will wreck the headset. An overtightened or loose integrated headset will wreck the frame. What one would you rather replace?

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    Because they felt tight and in other words....like CRAP...YES all Caps for that word. No good adjustment, and it was not possible to work out any imperfections on an integrated system. That is why most everyone rolls with a KING HS, or Cane Creek.

    Just my 2 cents...

    Mojito

    www.mintcycles.com


    Quote Originally Posted by kirbyx
    Anyone know why Litespeed gave up on integrated headsets? ( no guesses please!)

  10. #10
    Industry Maven Thylacine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil H
    So, if they're using cups, that's not integrated.....
    Well, Columbus sells integrated cups that you braze into the frame. I think the best definition of 'integrated' is where the 'cups' are not designed to be removed from the frame OR are an integral part of the frame. Whether they are pressed, fusion welded or brazed into the frame is largely irrelevant.

    Then again most terms in the bike industry are largely irrelevant or wrong, such as 'mitreing is actually coping', and 'compact actually means sloping'.

    Speaking of irrelevant and wrong, I wonder how that frameforum website is going?
    Have you earned your stripes? <<click here / Questions about custom frames? Chat me! - warwickg71 (AIM/iChat) ThylacineCycles (Skype)

  11. #11
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    well if the intergrated headsets don't work why does it seem that every bmx manufactuer spec their bikes with them?

  12. #12
    Senior Member Neil H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thylacine
    Well, Columbus sells integrated cups that you braze into the frame....
    Speaking of irrelevant and wrong, I wonder how that frameforum website is going?
    So, we've moved on from TITANIUM Litespeeds to STEEL braze-on cups that convert a standard head tube to an INTEGRATED HEADSET- type head tube. Your point is?

    Frameforum is doing just great, as you well know. ( My server/hosting company automatically logs IP adresses). Built any good frames lately?

  13. #13
    Senior Member Neil H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ogdmfg
    well if the intergrated headsets don't work why does it seem that every bmx manufactuer spec their bikes with them?
    OK, since we've moved on from road-going Litespeed frames to BMX (seamless jump, eh?) The differences are this:

    The wall thicknesses and tube diameters used in BMX head tubes are far greater than those used in road bikes.
    BMX bikes typically use straight head tubes with pressed-in races as opposed to flared head tubes found in Litespeed's and others. In other words; a different system of integration.

    Typically, a BMX frame will have a head tube of 90-100mm in length. There is adequate bracing from the top and down tubes to resist deformation, or 'ovalising' of the head tube.

    Typically, BMX bikes are production-line assembled. Integrated headsets allow for faster production-line assembly, the main reason for their popularity and introduction by assembly-line manufacturers.

    New is not always better. Other "hip but *****" ideas include:

    Biopace
    10mm pitch track drivetrains
    Elevated chainstays
    U-brakes

    Add integrated headsets to the list and you can call yourself a free thinker. Don't and you're just giving in to fashion diktat.
    Last edited by Neil H; 02-12-07 at 05:58 AM.

  14. #14
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    Hmmm... I see your point, but I would have to say have you even looked at any of the new generation bmx frames? the are using alot of the same tubing that the road crowd uses. I know this because my new bmx framesets use the same wall thickness, the intergated headsets have an advantage of dropping over a .25 pound off of the over all weight of the completed bike.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Neil H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ogdmfg
    Hmmm... I see your point, but I would have to say have you even looked at any of the new generation bmx frames? the are using alot of the same tubing that the road crowd uses. I know this because my new bmx framesets use the same wall thickness, the intergated headsets have an advantage of dropping over a .25 pound off of the over all weight of the completed bike.
    Yes, but you're not using flared head tubes with a 1mm or less wall thickness are you? And you're probably using zero-stack style headsets. A different set-up altogether, and since the original post was about L-I-T-S-P-E-E-D T-I-T-A-N-I-U-M and their choice of bearing system.... well, you decide how relevant it is to the discussion to chime in about steel BMX frames. I'm sure your frames are very nice and your headsets absolutely wonderful, but that's not what the discussion was about.

  16. #16
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    I have been very civil on this matter, not only do I bmx frames but also road and mtn frames,where do you get off being so jaded,last time I checked this was a forum on framebuilding not being an internet bully. Oh and the topic where does it say T-I-T-A-N-I-U-M.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Neil H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ogdmfg
    I have been very civil on this matter, not only do I bmx frames but also road and mtn frames,where do you get off being so jaded,last time I checked this was a forum on framebuilding not being an internet bully. Oh and the topic where does it say T-I-T-A-N-I-U-M.
    What else do Litespeed make?

    I'm being civil too. Being "jaded" would be to say " well, the guy is obviously talking out his a55 and hasn't engaged his brain before posting, but hey, that's OK, that's what the internet is about; misinformation. i won't bother to reply"
    I hope you pay a bit more attention when you're welding.....

  18. #18
    Senior Member Dubbayoo's Avatar
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    I guess you told him.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattC
    Well since Litespeed used cups the wreck the frame argument holds no water. If you read the Litespeed forums that used to be on the website it was mainly due to customer feedback. They also ahd a problem on the frames the first year with the cups themselves being out of spec.
    That is what they want you to think. I worked at Litespeed and the integrated headtubes were a problem form the beginning. The forming of the bells at the ends of the headtube along with the way it was crimped down to supposedly make it more aero overworked the very thin walled ti tubing. There was also no way to align the cups after they were pressed in the frame, so if the headtube was not straight there was not way to fix it.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Neil H's Avatar
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    The forming of the bells at the ends of the headtube along with the way it was crimped down to supposedly make it more aero overworked the very thin walled ti tubing. There was also no way to align the cups after they were pressed in the frame, so if the headtube was not straight there was not way to fix it.
    I'd call that "wrecked" - before it even gets on the road!

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