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Framebuilders Thinking about a custom frame? Lugged vs Fillet Brazed. Different Frame materials? Newvex or Pacenti Lugs? why get a custom Road, Mountain, or Track Frame? Got a question about framebuilding? Lets discuss framebuilding at it's finest.

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Old 03-23-07, 02:57 PM   #1
silversmith
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First Build: On the right path?

I'm planning on ordering parts for my first build from Joe Bringheli.

I'm looking at a seat lug that has sockets for the seat stays. It's part P88 cast lug and the order sheet says 28.6/28.6 for 14 ss 73 (degrees).

The angle and the seat tube/top tube sizes are what I need. I'm having trouble with the 14 seat stay.

He has two options, a 14/10.5 and a 14/12.5. Am I correct in thinking the 14 refers to the od at the top of the stay and the 12.5 is the ID at the drop out end?

I'm looking at the fp 13 rear dropouts. I've never seen any of these socket types and hope they'll work with the seat stay and the 29.9/16 oval chainstays I'd like to use.

Am I on the right track here?
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Old 03-23-07, 08:29 PM   #2
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My opinion is that the P88 seat lug is difficult to use because you can't see inside to judge your miters - don't worry about the angle of the stays since the socket is oval. I prefer the P51. 14mm stays are fine but I think 16mm look better on an OS frame. And for the FP13 dropouts, you want the 12.5mm seat stays.

Good luck.
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Old 03-23-07, 08:49 PM   #3
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Thanks! Thats just the advice I needed.


Dang. I really like that socketed seat lug.
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Old 03-24-07, 12:44 PM   #4
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Thanks! Thats just the advice I needed.


Dang. I really like that socketed seat lug.
If you like the socketed seat lug then get it. You can manage. Just take your time and check the miter outside the lug before you stick it inside and braze.

I recently saw a frame made by Della Santa and he used that same lug. I still feel it's not the easiest to use but it is not all that hard either. Do what makes you excited. That's what it's all about. http://www.dellasanta.com/index.php?...e-seat-lug.jpg
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Old 03-29-07, 11:49 PM   #5
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Well, I ordered the Zerotre standard size tubeset and lugs.

Joe didn't have a BB for me so I ordered a nice one with cast in cable guides from Ken at Nova Cycles.

Really good Customer service from these chaps.

My future bike is on the way. I can't wait to set file to steel!

By the way, I paid for the frameset in an unusual fashion, by collecting cans at a nickel apiece!

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Old 04-09-07, 09:26 AM   #6
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I've got my main triangle miters cut and my fork blades trimmed to size. Now I'm waiting on my silver and SS dropouts to arive.

I anticipated using my dremel more. So far I've found a fine tooth hacksaw and a big bastard file (I just can't say "big bastard file" often enough) are quicker and cleaner than using the dremel. Less noise and no smell, either!





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Old 04-09-07, 01:39 PM   #7
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Cool, looks good so far. Are you planning on cutting the compound miter in the ST too? It's not necessary, but looks much cleaner when its built and it makes it easier to check the flow of silver when you braze up the ST/DT.
Gonna pin it?
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Old 04-09-07, 09:31 PM   #8
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I don't want to sound negative but are those the CS-86 lugs? If so, they are very minimal so you need to make sure your brazing is spot on. My opinion is that they are not a good choice for a first frame for this reason. Also, considering how small they are, brass may be a better choice for the brazing material since it's stronger.

Good luck. The frame looks great so far.
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Old 04-09-07, 10:40 PM   #9
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Sam Hall:Are you planning on cutting the compound miter in the ST too? It's not necessary, but looks much cleaner when its built and it makes it easier to check the flow of silver when you braze up the ST/DT.
Gonna pin it?
I hadn't thought about cutting the final miter. It does make sense though. Besides, what's one more miter?

I'm definitely going to pin the frame.

But now Nessism has me wondering about my lugs:



Nessism,

The Lugs are from Bringheli. He didn't have the set I asked for (cs 30).

I did take your earlier advice about the seat stay. I'm going to think hard on this too.

How much weaker is silver? I'm confident of getting the silver in deep.
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Old 04-09-07, 11:22 PM   #10
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OK, I've looked at the top and bottom lugs. I can see Nessism's point.

Nova has sets for 38 bucks, but I don't really need another seat tube. They've got a stamped set for 13, but they are OS.

Any ideas where else for a pair?
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Old 04-09-07, 11:52 PM   #11
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Yes, I'm looking at these lugs thinking I need something else.

Ouch.


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Old 04-10-07, 04:41 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silversmith
OK, I've looked at the top and bottom lugs. I can see Nessism's point.

Nova has sets for 38 bucks, but I don't really need another seat tube. They've got a stamped set for 13, but they are OS.

Any ideas where else for a pair?
I didn't really look at those lugs before....those are some sexy little bikinis! I agree that some lugs with more overlap would be better for your first frame. Give Lon at Nova a call, you don't have to buy a full set, you can just get the head lugs.
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Old 04-11-07, 10:49 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silversmith
OK, I've looked at the top and bottom lugs. I can see Nessism's point.

Nova has sets for 38 bucks, but I don't really need another seat tube. They've got a stamped set for 13, but they are OS.

Any ideas where else for a pair?
Get the lugs and use the extra seat lug for your second frame.
Building frames is like Lay's potato chips...
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Old 04-11-07, 10:58 PM   #14
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LOL!

I ordered them yesterday!

With any luck they'll make it here Friday along with the stainless drops from Henry James.
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Old 05-02-07, 12:28 PM   #15
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My frame is together enough that I stuck a seat postin it, cleched the steerer with both hands,,,,,and rolled wildly out of control acros my driveway.

Yeah!

Lots of cleaning up to do yet. I also have a couple of braze-ons left to silver on. But the frame is straight and the joints are tight.





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Old 05-02-07, 07:02 PM   #16
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Did you soak the frame in water to get the flux out from the inside? If not, you need to do so or corrosion will set in (don't ask me how I know).
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Old 05-02-07, 10:43 PM   #17
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Nessism,

Indeed!

It was just out of the soak when I snapped the pics. I left it in overnight.
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