ya'll can't mush me
Huge campy dropouts. Also, jig questions.
So I have these gigantic campy track ends (as attached). The tabs on them are massive, and I'd like to convert some high-end road frames to track using these drop outs.
My question is, are they usually filed down to meet the frame? Do I file them beforehand? Should I just leave them?
Also, Anvil makes a great dummy axle for brazing these. What other types of small jig solutions would you recommend? I could easily just use an old axle and level the dropouts so they're parallel, but neither to dummy axle nor my axle would insure that the insertion depth of the dropout (into the chainstay) would be even. Any ideas?
Originally Posted by pat dasein
File or grind them after brazing the slotted seat stays and chainstays to the dropouts.
Wonder how he will adjust the BB height... hmmm.... fork... hmmmm....
He says he's replacing the road dropouts on existing "high end road frames" with these, so the frame geometry is pretty much set, no?
Originally Posted by ultraman6970
normally they are filed/ground beforehand, because in the case of simple designs like flat plate you can get at them easier and burn off some metal more readily while they are separated, you don't risk scratching your tubes. And in the case of fancy stuff there are sometimes little features you need to get at with a file, that you can't do once brazed. Not to say it can't be done either way, or you might not leave a little bit extra to blend in.
He said "and I'd like to convert some high-end road frames to track using these drop outs"
I assume he is talking about road high end frames. Track frame and Road frames are totally different. The existence of cheap ass (called) track frames with road configuration (lower BB, road angles, road fork and brake holes) in the market doesn't mean somebody that takes track seriuosly will chose one of those frames as his war machine. In a matter of fact, in high end frames is even more noticeable, Ciocc, Colnago or even Argon 18 won't grab a road frame and fork and tell you that is a super track war machine ever.
I apologize if I was a little bit sarcastic, I'm not saying that u can't put those campy ends to a super road frame, but I', still wondering how to change the geometry of that frame to make it look more track'y w/o having to take appart almost every single tube of the frame and braze it back together. To lift that BB u need to take the BB off, the chain stays needs to be re allign and short them a little bit also. To move the seat tube angles from 73 degrees to 74 or 75 u have to take appart the seat post lug, with the front of the frame the same thing. OK u get a track fork, the whole front tube needs to be replaced unless u get a road frame big enough to do those changes w/o puttin new tubing, at the end it will be the same than building a new bike. This is the same process if u have to make a frame smaller... it is cheaper to buy a new one or build your self a new one from scratch. Always u can short the bike a little bit, and that will help a little bit but u need to take the front end off anyways and put it back together. At least for me track bike is not the same as a fixed gear bike eventhough both have horizontal ends.
Sorry for my sarcasm, but there is a big difference betweem one frame and another one, if you want to keep angles and fork, yes just swap the ends in the right position. If you want to build a track machine from a road frame, thats another story....thats was all my point
OK, got it.
I guess I read it differently; I thought the OP meant just converting road bikes to fixies/single speeds by hacking off the braze-ons and derailleur hangers, and replacing the road dropouts with track dropouts as a touch of faux authenticity without changing the frame to true track geometry.
Without judging the merits of these conversions, it's a fact that here in San Francisco they make older steel frames much more desirable to a segment of the population.
I forgive you heheh not a problem i understand what u said also... Im a darn purist thats all... thats my worse sin...
I think what people get confused on is track bikes and single speed or direct drive bikes, you would never put a road geometry single speed on a velodrome track for fear of taping cranks or too much flex, I always feel when you use the word track, it's meant for a velodrome oval.