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Framebuilders Thinking about a custom frame? Lugged vs Fillet Brazed. Different Frame materials? Newvex or Pacenti Lugs? why get a custom Road, Mountain, or Track Frame? Got a question about framebuilding? Lets discuss framebuilding at it's finest.

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Old 02-20-08, 11:00 PM   #1
jerrymcdougal
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Getting a custom track frame made, I need advice and suggestions

Allan Wanta will be making me a track frame soon. (I'm doing a website redesign for him too) Here is what I am thinking:

Tubeset: Columbus Spirit Keirin? Reynolds 853? Kaisei? Dedacciai?
Lugs: Long Shen 300
Dropouts, Track crown, Seatstay caps: Kalavinka
I also was thinking silver brazing would be neat.

What do you think? Am I overlooking anything? Anything you would suggest? I fluctuate from 190-200lbs or so. The frame will be used for street use mainly.

Thanks!

-Jerry
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Old 02-21-08, 01:26 AM   #2
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Ask Allan. That's why you're paying him.
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Old 02-21-08, 01:32 AM   #3
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Ask Allan. That's why you're paying him.
Oh I will, we haven't really gotten to that stage yet is all. Just thought I would get lots of opinions and input. More ideas and opinions are always better than not I guess.
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Old 02-21-08, 01:41 AM   #4
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If you are using it for street use have you thought about braze-ons for fenders or a water bottle mount?
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Old 02-21-08, 01:48 AM   #5
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If you are using it for street use have you thought about braze-ons for fenders or a water bottle mount?
Yeah thanks for bringing that up. I don't plan on riding this in foul weather at all so I wouldn't need eyelets. I would like this frame to kind of be as 'track' as possible. I just like the aesthetic of a pure track frame (no braze-ons, not drilled for brakes etc). I may however opt for one water bottle braze on. I could always get a clamp if I needed though. Hmm.

I have a commuter/beater fixed gear that is more practical. This bike will be my fancy one. Kinda like your grandpas 57' chevy that he would take out on sunday for a drive.
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Old 02-21-08, 02:01 AM   #6
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Yeah thanks for bringing that up. I don't plan on riding this in foul weather at all so I wouldn't need eyelets. I would like this frame to kind of be as 'track' as possible. I just like the aesthetic of a pure track frame (no braze-ons, not drilled for brakes etc). I may however opt for one water bottle braze on. I could always get a clamp if I needed though. Hmm.

I have a commuter/beater fixed gear that is more practical. This bike will be my fancy one. Kinda like your grandpas 57' chevy that he would take out on sunday for a drive.
Fashion's a b!tch, huh? Personally I go for comfort in my rides. To each is own!
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Old 02-21-08, 02:04 AM   #7
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Fashion's a b!tch, huh? Personally I go for comfort in my rides. To each is own!
Yeah maybe I'm a bit guilty. I have a comfy ride too. I figured why have another comfy one, why not a *****in one. Cadillac vs Ferrari.
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Old 02-21-08, 03:26 AM   #8
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Well, you're in a bit of a quandry, aincha? If you want a poseur track frame, you're not going to have the retro "look what I found on craigslist!" cache, and you're not going to have the "look what I waited two years for!" cache, so you're kinda buggered.

The only way you can claw back any credibility would be to just go the Kalavinka/Kaisei route, paint it fluoro pink with green splatters and say you've had it for 20 years. Hang every NJS part you can find from EAI, NOS Araya rims from yellowjersey, soldered spokes and hey presto! You're in like Flynn.
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Old 02-21-08, 11:25 AM   #9
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Well, you're in a bit of a quandry, aincha? If you want a poseur track frame, you're not going to have the retro "look what I found on craigslist!" cache, and you're not going to have the "look what I waited two years for!" cache, so you're kinda buggered.

The only way you can claw back any credibility would be to just go the Kalavinka/Kaisei route, paint it fluoro pink with green splatters and say you've had it for 20 years. Hang every NJS part you can find from EAI, NOS Araya rims from yellowjersey, soldered spokes and hey presto! You're in like Flynn.
Honestly I don't want any "cache" of any sort, I just want a frame just how I would like it. I'm not buying it to impress anyone or have some sort of status or something. I guess I don't see anything wrong with that. About the wait, I honestly don't know how long it will be. Al only builds part time, so I don't think he has too huge of a list. I could be very wrong though.
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Old 02-21-08, 12:15 PM   #10
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I think that you can do anything you want and it will be cool. The bikes that I gravitate towards are always quirky, "specials" is what builders call them. Your builder is the one to discuss the tubesets with but I think that it is not out of line to choose those lugs if you like them. Think about comfort, so angles, tire spacing and, as mentioned, water bottle bosses.

Have fun!
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Old 02-21-08, 01:31 PM   #11
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I think that you can do anything you want and it will be cool. The bikes that I gravitate towards are always quirky, "specials" is what builders call them. Your builder is the one to discuss the tubesets with but I think that it is not out of line to choose those lugs if you like them. Think about comfort, so angles, tire spacing and, as mentioned, water bottle bosses.

Have fun!
Thanks man! Thats what I was looking for.

-Jerry
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Old 02-21-08, 04:13 PM   #12
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Tough Crowd!

What do you mean by Silver Brazed, do you mean silver fillet brazed, or lugs and silver?

With your weight you aren't even on the chart for a lot of sets. So I probably wouldn't get too wrapped up in a particular name set, but let the maker specify any changes that might be required for your weight. Nothing wrong with your weight, it's pretty normal, just that it's high for name race sets. Maybe that isn't true for one of the ones you mentioned, I;m even heavier and don't even bother thinking about name sets.
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Old 02-21-08, 04:36 PM   #13
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Tough Crowd!

What do you mean by Silver Brazed, do you mean silver fillet brazed, or lugs and silver?

With your weight you aren't even on the chart for a lot of sets. So I probably wouldn't get too wrapped up in a particular name set, but let the maker specify any changes that might be required for your weight. Nothing wrong with your weight, it's pretty normal, just that it's high for name race sets. Maybe that isn't true for one of the ones you mentioned, I;m even heavier and don't even bother thinking about name sets.
Sorry, I meant lugs and silver. I too thought about my weight in relation to tubeset. However, I was told by a few different trustable sources (Shop owners, collectors, ex-racers) that those weight limits are merely for lawyers and that unless your 250 and riding something like columbus air, (which is .5mm straight gauge i think) you have nothing to worry about. Ill have to consult Al on that. I have a Tange Prestige Davidson and I think Prestige has a less than 200lb weight limit. I haven't had any problems at all with that. But again, I'm not an expert by any means.

If it means anything I plan on getting down to 180 or so soon. The attack of the winter gut has got me.

btw thanks for the constructive help! It is a tough crowd!

-Jerry
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Old 02-21-08, 05:01 PM   #14
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Your not going to break it, so in that sense it isn't even a Lawyer issue. Whether it rides the way you want it to or not is another mater. Weight is only part of it, I may be heavy, but I'm not going to wail on a frame likea lot of tougher riders will, so weight is only a guideline.

If you look here:

http://henryjames.com/techinfo.pdf

On page 7 you can see some typical sets. In standard road tubing the top is 170 pounds. That is easily adjusted up, but it goes to show what they think of as way out at the end of the bell curve. I would say that in my thing, loaded touring bikes I actually can go standard tubing even though I am off that page.
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Old 02-21-08, 06:44 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Peterpan1

With your weight you aren't even on the chart for a lot of sets. So I probably wouldn't get too wrapped up in a particular name set, but let the maker specify any changes that might be required for your weight. Nothing wrong with your weight, it's pretty normal, just that it's high for name race sets. Maybe that isn't true for one of the ones you mentioned, I'm even heavier and don't even bother thinking about name sets.
WTF is a 'name set'?
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Old 02-21-08, 07:53 PM   #16
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WTF is a 'name set'?
Im guessing popular name brand tubesets ie Columbus Spirit Keirin, SLX, TT OX Platinum etc.
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Old 02-22-08, 11:52 AM   #17
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Your not a builder, so why would you even consider telling him what kind of tubing or solder to use. Tell him what you hope to achieve and let 'im at it. I suspect you wouldn't appreciate being told when to use CSS v. Javascript and where. They're just means to an end.
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Old 02-22-08, 03:10 PM   #18
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Your not a builder, so why would you even consider telling him what kind of tubing or solder to use. Tell him what you hope to achieve and let 'im at it. I suspect you wouldn't appreciate being told when to use CSS v. Javascript and where. They're just means to an end.
I would never TELL him to do or use anything. I was just thinking if I gave him a few different tubesets suggestions that I liked, that he could use his expertise to decide what is best. Same with web design that I do for clients. I usually inform them of how each different language or platform will affect the final product. If they want something animated and interactive the more tech savvy might suggest flash, I take that into consideration and then might decide that Flex in conjunction with flash would serve them better. Actually that is exactly what Al suggested to me for his site. I would have used traditional XHTML, CSS, and maybe some PHP, but he wanted to step it up to Flash and I thought that was a great idea. By him suggesting that I can see that he wants something a little more cutting edge and powerful. If I suggest Columbus Spirit, and he thinks, for example, the seat tube in that set isn't strong enough for my weight, he could substitute whatever he thinks is best. The way I see it if your paying all this money for something that is supposedly just what you want, why not make it as close to exactly what you want as feasible? From what Ive heard from Al, he has no problem working with me on that sort of thing. I guess I think that by being offered suggestions, one can get a better idea of what the client wants.

Sorry if I offended anyone, it definitely was not my intention. I guess now I better understand how the world of frame building works. This is after all the first custom... anything Ive ever gotten. Excuse my naiveness.

-Jerry
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Old 02-22-08, 09:50 PM   #19
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Water off a duck, JMcD. Consider the real info that comes out, try not to make an ass of yourself and ignore the trolls and yappers. Enjoy your dream build.
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