Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 10 of 12 FirstFirst ... 89101112 LastLast
Results 226 to 250 of 281
  1. #226
    Senior Member Cassave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Woodland Hills, Calif.
    Posts
    1,513
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by paipo View Post
    First of all I want to thank you for generously sharing your art and wisdom. As with everyone here, I really appreciate this thread...no...this story. Your bicycle is achingly beautiful. It very much reminds me of my long-gone Columbine Cycleworks the Murphys built for me over 30 years ago...the polished Henry James lugs and the blue paint. I wish I still had the bike, but it was lost about 20 years ago in a bicycle shop in Huntigton Beach that changed owners and the shop is probably no longer there.

    But there's hope. After reading and re-reading this thread a few times over, I think I know what I'd like to do with my time when I retire from my present career in a few short years. I want to build my own frames and forks. You have no idea how you and your exquisite work have inspired me to try this. I think my baby step for this exciting endeavor should be simple and pure...a road-friendly fixed-gear bike...polished lugs and all...and blue

    If I make enough garage space soon, I might even have to start before I retire. And I hope its good enough to show you my effort one day. I'm new here and please forgive me if I sound as if I'm trying to hump your leg. This is not my purpose I just appreciate great works of mechanical art. Again, thank you for sharing!
    Thanks so much.

    I'm particularly gratified to see that this thread might help spawn a few new framebuilders.
    It's a very satisfying process (for me at least) that results in a new bike. Hard to see the downside of that.

  2. #227
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    YEG
    My Bikes
    See my sig...
    Posts
    26,407
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    This is a truly awesome and epic thread and although I cannot say it inspired me to start building frames (was inspired long ago) I started an apprenticeship with a master frame builder.

    He prefers fillet brazed as he builds custom tandems and long tail touring bicycles with unique geometries but is also adept at building lugged frames.

    Will be doing both as well as refitting, repairing, and customizing existing frames and was told my initial work was very good and my years spent as a bike mechanic and machinist are quite an aid when it comes to doing this.

    Will surely be building custom racks and cages and have been working on some designs already.

    The long term plan is for me to take over when he retires, even though he is already a decade past the age when most folks retire.

  3. #228
    Member mr9iron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    WA
    My Bikes
    '87 Peugeot Triathlon, '93 DeRosa Classico
    Posts
    30
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    When building a frame like this, what are tpical tolernaces that you are working to? I mean for a high qulity precision ride, is being within a millimeter good enough? 2 or 3 millimeters? or do you need to be like within machining tolerances like say + or - .005? I am guessing by looking at the jig, a millimeter or 2 must be OK? Is being within this range generally considered precise in the frame building world? I guess manufactured frames are probably tighter?

    How do you keep the rear wheel stay parallel so the rear wheel is perfectly true and in line with the center of the seat tube? Again is there a tolerance which is acceptable here?

    thanks for any reply,

    Jeff

  4. #229
    Senior Member Cassave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Woodland Hills, Calif.
    Posts
    1,513
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by mr9iron View Post
    When building a frame like this, what are tpical tolernaces that you are working to? I mean for a high qulity precision ride, is being within a millimeter good enough? 2 or 3 millimeters? or do you need to be like within machining tolerances like say + or - .005? I am guessing by looking at the jig, a millimeter or 2 must be OK? Is being within this range generally considered precise in the frame building world? I guess manufactured frames are probably tighter?

    How do you keep the rear wheel stay parallel so the rear wheel is perfectly true and in line with the center of the seat tube? Again is there a tolerance which is acceptable here?

    thanks for any reply,

    Jeff
    Good questions. I accept different allowances depending on the dimension in question. TT or ST length can easily vary by a few mm without any real affect, that said, I shoot for nominal and always get to less than 2mm.
    Chainstay length is another very tolerant value particularly if you build with horizontal drops.

    Angles, particularly the headtube are best controlled to well less than 1/4 degree, which is trivial since the fixture really determines the finished angle of any joint.
    For example, a 1/4 degree error on a 58cm frame will place the top of the seattube about 2.5mm from nominal, more than I'd be happy with.
    I set the fixture with a large adjustable angle gauge and of course shoot for nominal.

    Coplanarity of the main triangle is fairly crucial, I usually get a "perfect" result right out of the fixture due to the fact that I'm brazing subassemblies of headtube/downtube and BB shell/seattube and lastly the top tube.
    However, if I needed to coldset, I'd shoot for less than 0.1mm measured over the length of the headtube. That works out to less than 0.04 degrees parallelism error headtube to seattube.

    The jig I built fixtures the chainstays relative to the plane of the front triangle and a centerline thru the BB shell. If brazing results in a small lateral error I'll coldset the stays to less than a mm before brazing the
    seatstays. Once the seatstays are brazed there's no hope of making vertical adjustments to the dropouts so that operation is critical. Vertical position of the upper surface if the dropout slot is held to less than 0.1mm error in symmetry.
    A simple T gauge placed in the dropouts should place the center leg of the T at the center of the top of the seat tube.

    In general, symmetry of frame features is more critical to ride quality than minor variation from nominal lengths and angles.

    I'm building only for myself.
    I don't really have time pressures to get a frame done in a few days. I can afford to go slow and get things exactly right, at least exact to my ability to measure an error.

  5. #230
    Member mr9iron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    WA
    My Bikes
    '87 Peugeot Triathlon, '93 DeRosa Classico
    Posts
    30
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    wow, that answers exactly what I was wondering about. (Precisely)

    thank you for replying, you are so kind to keep answering questions over the life of this thread.

    I have been researching to see if it is feasible (cost effective) to build by own lugged frame. I was hoping to see if I could create a lighter bike than my current ride, (TSX/SLX Steel) which I restored, a far cry from what you have built here from scratch, I would probably copy the geometry.

    http://www.unbreakablebridges.com/EL84/Bike/DeRosa.html

    I'm getting older and was hoping to make things lighter but the cost of today's lighter models is quite unaffordable for me. I am not sure if this is a good reason alone to build my own frame, but there are a number of other advantages. Since I have a ride now, I could take my time as you have.

    I can't express what an astounding result you have achieved, so many others have tried to express this, I'll just pile on.

    thank you again,

    Jeff

  6. #231
    a bored kid hpmcardle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    East Lansing, MI
    My Bikes
    Year unknown CCM Targa conversion
    Posts
    177
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    This is beyond words...the pics you took from tubes to frame were amazing. I can't believe my eyes. I'd sell my soul to be able to do that.
    Quote Originally Posted by cc700 View Post
    i'm so icy hot i need to put bleach on my skids to keep my underwear as fresh as my street cred.

  7. #232
    Seņor Member 4Rings6Stars's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Boston
    My Bikes
    Lots of em.
    Posts
    1,680
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Read the whole thread and like everybody else, I was amazed. Both at your ability as a framebuilder and your kindness in documenting it and answering all the questions.

    I'm in college and I'm just starting framebuilding as a hobby. I have been looking at different home built jigs and I like your design the best. Do you have any more pictures or details of the jig other than what you shared within this thread?
    Independent Fabrication Planet X-DeSalvo Monstercross Disc-Soma DC Disc-Wicked Fat Chance
    Bill Boston Tandem-Centurion Cinelli-Raleigh Sports-WTB Phoenix ti-Hampsten Crema

  8. #233
    Senior Member Cassave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Woodland Hills, Calif.
    Posts
    1,513
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by 4Rings6Stars View Post
    Read the whole thread and like everybody else, I was amazed. Both at your ability as a framebuilder and your kindness in documenting it and answering all the questions.

    I'm in college and I'm just starting framebuilding as a hobby. I have been looking at different home built jigs and I like your design the best. Do you have any more pictures or details of the jig other than what you shared within this thread?
    Sorry, no I don't. Give me a few days and I'll shoot a couple more pics and put them up.

  9. #234
    Bicycle Hoarder Holden McNeil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Montville, NJ
    Posts
    103
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Am I the only one who can't see the pics?

    Nevermind. Upgraded to Prem. Membership and now they show up. Awesome!

  10. #235
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    193
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    A real man's hobby. Good job. I am interested in building my own bike someday, but it will be way way down the road cause I got to get through engineering school first. Got to get a garage and a bunch of special tools.

    Say... would it be much more difficult to make carbon fiber parts? I don't know about homemade carbon frames though... *crack*

  11. #236
    Senior Member Ira B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Coupeville, WA
    My Bikes
    84 Raleigh Technium- 89 Shogun Mt. Bike-96 Miyata 914
    Posts
    880
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Sitting here with the laptop and read this thread twice. I am almost speechless.
    My eyes were popped out so much my wife thought I was looking at naughty websites.
    Yep, THAT Ira

  12. #237
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Texas Gulf Coast
    Posts
    24
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Placid Casual View Post
    I want to lick this frame.
    Bahahahaha

    That is funny!

  13. #238
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Southeast USA
    Posts
    10
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I just read the whole thread. Many of my questions were asked and answered along the way. Thanks!

  14. #239
    Senior Member liong71er's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    30 minutes ride into manhattan.
    My Bikes
    so far i got 6 of them.
    Posts
    65
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    thank you, sir!
    for your generosity for showing (us) how's it done.it's really inspired me more and i wanna learn to built my own frame,but the thing is i'm felt too old to learn (sigh)...i'm admired your crafmanship and your kind heart personality!!

    thank you!
    i'm not a roadies,but i'm pretend to be just so i can fit in here!

  15. #240
    Senior Member Alan Edwards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Lancaster,CA the desert north of Los Angeles
    My Bikes
    84' Ciocc, 79' Shogun 1000, 76' KHS Gran Sport, 96' Schwinn Super Sport,
    Posts
    702
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Beautiful work, I hope that you are treated with the respect that you deserve. Just picked up a trashed bike that is beyond repair, will use this as a start for lugs and tubes.
    Totaly cheap wieght weenie. Totaly cheap bike snob. But I love Italian hand made stuff. 84' Ciocc, 85' Raleigh Super Course, 96' Sakae Litage, 2000 Lemond Maillot Jaune,
    2010 Nashbar SRAM RED, 86', 87', 89' Ironmen, 96' Schwinn Super Sport, 79' Shogun 1500, and ten projects.

  16. #241
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    5
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Very nice thread and gave me some more understanding on building a lugged frame. But could you go over how the seat stays attach to the seat lug a little for me?

  17. #242
    Old fart JohnDThompson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Appleton WI
    My Bikes
    Several, mostly not name brands.
    Posts
    13,087
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Nocturnus View Post
    Very nice thread and gave me some more understanding on building a lugged frame. But could you go over how the seat stays attach to the seat lug a little for me?
    On which frame?

    There's a lot of variety in attaching seat stays -- many builders see it as sort of a "signature."

    If the stays are attached to the sides of the lug, it's simply a matter of building a fillet of brass or silver under the stay. I usually file a shallow groove in the side of the lug prior to brazing to help hold the stay in place and provide a little more surface area for the joint, but it isn't strictly necessary.



    There are plenty of variations on this with different degrees of wrapover, the shape of the stay ends, and so on.

    "Fastback" attachment where the stays are attached to the back of the lug requires the stays to be mitered to fit the lug. The seat clamp may or may not be integral with this attachment.

    Last edited by JohnDThompson; 05-03-11 at 12:37 PM.

  18. #243
    Senior Member Cassave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Woodland Hills, Calif.
    Posts
    1,513
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Take a look at post #82 for pics and explanation.

    As you can see, the profile cut into the top of each stay allows it to fit against the seatlug, then it's just a matter of brazing a fillet at the joint.

  19. #244
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    5
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Didn't see anything in post 82 that dealt with attaching the seat stays to the top seat tube lug, unless the images wouldn't load.

    But the above post did help me out.

  20. #245
    Senior Member Rangerover's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    gillette,wyoming
    My Bikes
    raleigh talon, lightweight panasonic
    Posts
    78
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Truely inspirational work of art

  21. #246
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Dover, OH
    My Bikes
    85 Trek 400; Trek 420, 73 Fuji S10 S, Panasonic Sport 500
    Posts
    40
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thank you for the educational thread.

  22. #247
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    2
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Do you think its possible to build a frame without jigs? I am very interested in building one myself and have been researching around, watching videos of how homemade bikes are done...... and it seems possible. But I would like to hear it from you. Your insight to this would be most helpful.....

    Thanks a million,

    Nik

  23. #248
    Senior Member Cassave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Woodland Hills, Calif.
    Posts
    1,513
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by nicholas_kiong View Post
    Do you think its possible to build a frame without jigs? I am very interested in building one myself and have been researching around, watching videos of how homemade bikes are done...... and it seems possible. But I would like to hear it from you. Your insight to this would be most helpful.....

    Thanks a million,

    Nik
    Sure, a lot of frames (lugged) have been built without jigs. "Old school" building consisted of pinned joints and and a calibrated eyeball.

    I've built a few that way, and it can be done with little more than a good bench vise, a box of files and a torch.
    That said, I do think building in fixtures is easier, at least for the rear triangle and fork.

  24. #249
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    2
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hi Cassave,

    Thank you so much for your prompt reply and your insight on frame building is excellent and I sincerely hope I can pose my own frame on your blog one day.

    God bless.....
    Quote Originally Posted by Cassave View Post
    Sure, a lot of frames (lugged) have been built without jigs. "Old school" building consisted of pinned joints and and a calibrated eyeball.

    I've built a few that way, and it can be done with little more than a good bench vise, a box of files and a torch.
    That said, I do think building in fixtures is easier, at least for the rear triangle and fork.

  25. #250
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    145
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Can't see the pictures

Page 10 of 12 FirstFirst ... 89101112 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •