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-   -   How to build a lugged steel frame, with pics (http://www.bikeforums.net/framebuilders/399311-how-build-lugged-steel-frame-pics.html)

East Hill 03-20-08 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alicestrong (Post 6375111)
Now how did I guess that you might say that? :D

But seriously, thank you. I know when I first read here that you built bikes I was very curious but I never did make it over to the Framebuilders subforum so thanks again for putting this together...

Now when they get that hemp based frame material perfected...:p

Very nice photo documentation!

Alice, you should visit the Framebuilder's forum--there is an awesome thread on building bamboo frames.

If not pink, then how about ummmm....red?

East Hill

Cassave 03-20-08 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alicestrong (Post 6375111)
Now how did I guess that you might say that? :D

But seriously, thank you. I know when I first read here that you built bikes I was very curious but I never did make it over to the Framebuilders subforum so thanks again for putting this together...

Now when they get that hemp based frame material perfected...:p

You're welcome. It's a good opportunity for me to answer the questions I get asked all the time:

No, it's brazed, not welded
Yes, you can buy lugs, tubes the whole deal
The fork blades come straight, I bend'em
It only looks old, I built it last month
etc.

Stay tuned. I'll build the fork in the next few days or so then on to the rear triangle.

East Hill 03-20-08 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cassave (Post 6375180)
It only looks old, I built it last month
etc.

"It's a classic style of bike, and I am a Keeper of the Flame, thank you.".

East Hill

roadfix 03-20-08 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cassave (Post 6375180)
The fork blades come straight, I bend'em

How do you taper them?

Cassave 03-20-08 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadfix (Post 6375207)
How do you taper them?

They come tapered, either through a simple drawing process using rotary dies
or "Pilger" process which uses rotary dies and an internal mandrel which provides better
material thickness control.

I'll be building this one with Pilger blades. Makes for a very nice riding fork.

DaveSANYYZ 03-20-08 02:52 PM

Wow, thanks! :D

If I have the space and equipment, I'll try to learn how to build up my own frame someday. :)

ronjon10 03-20-08 04:40 PM

That's really awesome.

rm -rf 03-20-08 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cassave (Post 6375250)
They come tapered, either through a simple drawing process using rotary dies
or "Pilger" process which uses rotary dies and an internal mandrel which provides better
material thickness control.

I'll be building this one with Pilger blades. Makes for a very nice riding fork.

Good pictures, thanks!

I found a page on Pilger mills. The rollers are asymmetrical. This page shows tubing diameter being reduced, not tapered. So a tapered tube would probably need a different roller shape.
Some applications, such as baseball bats and golf clubs, rely on cold pilgering to create the intermediate, tapered shape. Other applications are lightning poles, finned tubes, and nonround tubes with internal or external longitudinal ribs.

twowheeltom 03-20-08 07:01 PM

Will there be a 'How to build a jig for a bicycle frame' thread? :)

HAMMER MAN 03-20-08 07:04 PM

probably not the best question, but is building a frame really that hard?
imo it seems to be very difficult and complicated especially with the lugs and angles.

Homebrew01 03-20-08 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HAMMER MAN (Post 6376573)
probably not the best question, but is building a frame really that hard?
imo it seems to be very difficult and complicated especially with the lugs and angles.

Depends on your definition of hard. It obviously takes some planning & calculating, but for me it was fun to do. I built a few in a similar fashion to the one here. Made my own fixture from thick aluminum flat plate, clamps, drill press and other basic hand tools. Nothing fancy or exotic required.

Homebrew01 03-20-08 07:45 PM

Looks nice, but I was just wondering why so much flux in the non-joint areas ?? Doesn't that require extra cleanup ?

waldowales 03-20-08 10:51 PM

White. Unquestionably the fastest! :)

HAMMER MAN 03-21-08 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homebrew01 (Post 6376784)
Depends on your definition of hard. It obviously takes some planning & calculating, but for me it was fun to do. I built a few in a similar fashion to the one here. Made my own fixture from thick aluminum flat plate, clamps, drill press and other basic hand tools. Nothing fancy or exotic required.

appreciate your reply.
Always wanted to try and build my own frame but I am not really mechanically inclined and I have no knowledge about welding. Just curious.

Cleave 03-21-08 08:07 AM

Hi Steve,

Classic (in every good sense of the word). :)

Cassave 03-21-08 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homebrew01 (Post 6376794)
Looks nice, but I was just wondering why so much flux in the non-joint areas ?? Doesn't that require extra cleanup ?


No. The idea is to flux past the heated zone so that no or little surface oxidation occurs.
The unmelted flux just washes off.

Dunwood 03-21-08 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HAMMER MAN (Post 6376573)
probably not the best question, but is building a frame really that hard?
imo it seems to be very difficult and complicated especially with the lugs and angles.

The process is not hard. But it is hard to do it correctly and have the frame last. Its hard to do it correctly, have it appear perfect after painting, size correctly and have it ride and handle properly. The top custom builders in the country have a 5 year + waiting list (Sachs, Baylis, etc.) Even Sacha White (Vanilla Cycles) now has a 5 year waiting list and he is relatively new on the scene (compared to Sachs, Gordon, Baylis etc.).

tinrobot 03-21-08 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunwood (Post 6380560)
The top custom builders in the country have a 5 year + waiting list (Sachs, Baylis, etc.) Even Sacha White (Vanilla Cycles) now has a 5 year waiting list and he is relatively new on the scene (compared to Sachs, Gordon, Baylis etc.).

Seems like there's a lot of demand for custom frames, but not nearly enough supply.

Classic macroeconomic problem.

zzzwillzzz 03-21-08 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinrobot (Post 6380873)
Seems like there's a lot of demand for custom frames, but not nearly enough supply.

Classic macroeconomic problem.

sort of... it's not that buyers want a lugged steel frame, it's that they want a Bayliss, or a Sachs or a Vanilla. so someone else can't just jump in an take up some of the demand.

questions:
threadless or threaded?
integrated shifting or downtube or bar end or jedi mind control or or or?
looks like you going with traditional seatstays as opposed to fastback
second water bottle mount?
any other custom touches like rack mounts, racks, fenders, pump peg, chain hanger?
looks like you're building general road racing frame, not sport touring or something else

Dunwood 03-21-08 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinrobot (Post 6380873)
Seems like there's a lot of demand for custom frames, but not nearly enough supply. Classic macroeconomic problem.

When one owns a frame like a Brian Baylis or Richard Sachs, they have no peer. Kinda like a early 80's California Masi. Or an original Italian Colnago. Owners say there is a certain mystic to the frame, its unique ride and you had it custom made to fit you. With a very limited supply, the price goes up.

One could say that a 70's vintage Ferarri doesn't drive as well as say a new Corvette or Viper. But the price is still high. Anyone with money can buy a new Corvette. But get in line to obtain the latest Euro wonder car (insert Badge name here: )

One of the differences however is that Sachs and Baylis freely share their wealth of information to the other frame builders (they tend to hang out on the various Framebuilder sites). They have a five year waiting list, what do they have to lose? Don't think you'll find Bentley sharing information with Ferrari.
This isn't to say that there are not other competent high quality custom frame builders. Just that its not a Sachs or Baylis.

haimtoeg 03-21-08 05:58 PM

This is really impressive. Thanks for sharing.

Cassave 03-22-08 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zzzwillzzz (Post 6381788)
sort of... it's not that buyers want a lugged steel frame, it's that they want a Bayliss, or a Sachs or a Vanilla. so someone else can't just jump in an take up some of the demand.

questions:
threadless or threaded?
integrated shifting or downtube or bar end or jedi mind control or or or?
looks like you going with traditional seatstays as opposed to fastback
second water bottle mount?
any other custom touches like rack mounts, racks, fenders, pump peg, chain hanger?
looks like you're building general road racing frame, not sport touring or something else

Hey Will;

Threaded,1" quill stem (got lots just sitting around)
Brifters, probably Chorus
Modified fastback stays, like my existing frames
2nd bottle mount - but of course
Other touches - yup, lots most will be polished stainless
General road frame true, parallel 73's, 58 cm.

zzzwillzzz 03-22-08 05:27 PM

i couldn't remember if your other bikes had fastback seatstays. don't some seat lugs have caps for the ends of the stays? they're not as graceful with the caps. a girl i rode with back in the 80's had a Cotten frame, with a wishbone seatstay, campy delta brakes and internal cable routing. they drilled a hole or slot in the seatpost for the brake cable to route through so that the cable was inline with the center cable mounting of the campy delta brake. it was/is the coolest and cleanest setup ever.

second bottle mount-i was just questioning it because your other bikes i've seen only have one.

Cassave 03-24-08 09:43 AM

Continuing on..........
Started the fork.

http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/...e/forkbits.jpg
All the bits needed to make a fork.

http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/...own_fluxed.jpg
The crown and steerer are fluxed and ready to braze....

http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/...own_brazed.jpg
Fully brazed and cooling

http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/...wn_milling.jpg
Cleaned up and now milling the crown race seat to 26.4mm

http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/...n_finished.jpg

A finished fork crown and steered assembly. Of course the crown will be high
polish when it's done.......

http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/...ve/bender1.jpg
The fork blade bending tool with a straight blade ready to be raked....

http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/...ve/bender2.jpg
done....

http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/...ades_raked.jpg
The raked blades ready for assembly with the tips, then to be trimmed to length
for assembly with the crown.

voltman 03-24-08 09:54 AM

I just wanted to say British racing green.


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