Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Framebuilders Thinking about a custom frame? Lugged vs Fillet Brazed. Different Frame materials? Newvex or Pacenti Lugs? why get a custom Road, Mountain, or Track Frame? Got a question about framebuilding? Lets discuss framebuilding at it's finest.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-01-09, 08:07 PM   #1
Blacklab78
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Blacklab78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Bikes:
Posts: 170
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Braze on removal questions - Fixed bike prep.

Hi Guys,

I won an old steel frame on ebay last week and I want to build it into a fixed gear bike.

My intention is to clean the frame up first and then powdercoat it.

I tried last night to remove some of the braze-ons on the frame and was successful in removing the TT cable guides only. I want to remove the DT shifter bosses also.

I only have a brazing gun - made really for jewellery. I'm thinking my brazing gun cannot get the metal hot enough to release the join. One of my best mates has an oxy torch - would we be better trying that out?

What do you recommend I do next?

Or would the powdercoaters usually be able to do it for me?

Thx in advance

Last edited by Blacklab78; 03-01-09 at 08:16 PM.
Blacklab78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-09, 08:21 PM   #2
Nessism
Senior Member
 
Nessism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Torrance, CA
Bikes: Homebuilt steel
Posts: 2,333
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Some people file off braze-ons. I use an oxy-acc torch.
__________________
Becareful buying/selling bike parts on-line. I learned the hard way. :(

Good/Bad Trader Listing
Nessism is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-09, 05:58 PM   #3
HandsomeRyan
Pants are for suckaz
 
HandsomeRyan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Mt. Airy, MD
Bikes: Hardtail MTB, Fixed gear, and Commuter bike
Posts: 2,578
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
What kind of frame is it?
HandsomeRyan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-09, 07:33 PM   #4
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Bikes:
Posts: 14,859
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsomeRyan View Post
What kind of frame is it?
probably a 1959 Cinelli previously worth $15000
unterhausen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-09, 07:48 PM   #5
Six jours
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 6,401
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If your frame is a no-name in lousy shape that cost you fifty bucks, your best bet may be to remove the braze-ons with a grinder and files. There is a school of thought which holds that it actually takes more heat to remove a brass-brazed braze-on than it did to braze it on in the first place, which is not very good for the tubes.

If your frame isn't a no-name in lousy shape then you've offended the cycling gods and will be struck down.

HTH!
Six jours is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-09, 08:06 PM   #6
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Bikes:
Posts: 14,859
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
pretty sure it always takes higher temps to undo a brazed or soldered joint than it did to join it in the first place. Undoing a brass joint thus would take you into a potentially dangerous temperature range. Silver is no problem. An older European/UK frame is almost surely put together using only brass.
unterhausen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-09, 12:33 AM   #7
Blacklab78
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Blacklab78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Bikes:
Posts: 170
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Just to be sure i'm not offending the cycling gods...it's an old lugged 4130 steel Apollo and it cost me less than $50usd.

It is actually in great shape with no visible surface rust at all. We'll see though with we beadblast it.

From the advice from you guys, i'll be grinding them off tonight then using filling if we go too far.

Thanks!
Blacklab78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-09, 12:40 AM   #8
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Bikes:
Posts: 14,859
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
please don't go too far. Stop early and get out the 80 grit emery cloth. Hate to see the cycling gods competing with Darwin to punish someone.
unterhausen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-09, 01:08 AM   #9
Six jours
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 6,401
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Ha!

Well, have fun, but yes, it's worth being careful. You can actually forgo the grinder entirely. A 12" bastrad (yes, I know how it's spelled, but the forum software thinks it's a dirty word) file will take off braze-ons shockingly quickly, and with significantly less chance of ugly holes in the tubes...
Six jours is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-09, 04:18 AM   #10
Blacklab78
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Blacklab78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Bikes:
Posts: 170
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
All done. Took it very slowly and we ended up doing a pretty good job i think. Took off all of the join and we'll just fill in anything that needs it.

I'll take some pics now and during the build.

Here's a pic of one of the shifter bosses after being ground. The paint is black around it from the efforts with the brazing torch which were unsuccessful
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 175.jpg (87.8 KB, 142 views)

Last edited by Blacklab78; 03-03-09 at 04:37 AM.
Blacklab78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-09, 04:46 AM   #11
Blacklab78
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Blacklab78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Bikes:
Posts: 170
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Here's some more pics...

So I ground off the down tube shifter bosses and the rear derailler cable guide. The brake cable loops on the top of the TT were heated up and removed with my braze torch
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 173.jpg (87.2 KB, 63 views)
File Type: jpg 174.jpg (87.3 KB, 48 views)
File Type: jpg 176.jpg (79.5 KB, 43 views)
File Type: jpg 177.jpg (89.4 KB, 46 views)
Blacklab78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-09, 10:14 PM   #12
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
Posts: 16,789
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 223 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nessism View Post
Some people file off braze-ons. I use an oxy-acc torch.
Other people just leave them alone if they're not in the way of anything.
JohnDThompson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-09, 10:38 PM   #13
superjohnny
Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Portland, Or.
Bikes: Surly Crosscheck fixed & 1 geared, & a DeSalvo Ti roadie
Posts: 47
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Sorry to bring back an old thread, but I used this procedure and it worked wonders on my '62 Colnago fixie conversion. Thanks guys.
superjohnny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-09, 10:44 AM   #14
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com
Posts: 22,746
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by superjohnny View Post
Sorry to bring back an old thread, but I used this procedure and it worked wonders on my '62 Colnago fixie conversion. Thanks guys.
Same here on my Confente and Spectrum.

-Kurt
__________________
cudak888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-09, 11:45 AM   #15
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
Posts: 16,789
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 223 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
Same here on my Confente and Spectrum.
Cool! I'm off to convert my René Herse randonneur right now!
JohnDThompson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-09, 06:42 PM   #16
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com
Posts: 22,746
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
Cool! I'm off to convert my René Herse randonneur right now!
Oh, that reminds me, I have a chrome Singer waiting in the basement. Thanks, John!

-Kurt
__________________
cudak888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-09, 09:10 AM   #17
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Bikes:
Posts: 14,859
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
What's a '62 Colnago frame worth, $5000? Of course they didn't have any braze ons, so a restoration would involve removing any.
unterhausen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-09, 05:00 PM   #18
jgedwa
surly old man
 
jgedwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Carlisle, PA
Bikes: IRO Mark V, Karate Monkey half fat, Trek 620 IGH, Cannondale 26/24 MTB, Amp Research B3, and more.
Posts: 3,354
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
In a related note, could one of you please send me your old-braze ons? I just found this cool GT Pulse track bike that I want to convert into a roadbike and want to attach fittings to it.

jim
__________________
Cross Check Nexus7, IRO Mark V, Trek 620 Nexus7, Karate Monkey half fat, IRO Model 19 fixed, Amp Research B3, Surly 1x1 half fat fixed, and more...
--------------------------
SB forever
jgedwa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-09, 06:49 PM   #19
NoReg
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Try the nova online catalog, probably easier and cheaper at the end of the day.

I'm not convinced about the heat thing for the usual reasons:

1) you can weld most of the tubes out there so heats into white do not harm these tubes, under the right conditions. Abviously we are way below that level here, so in most cases there shouldn't be a problem.

2) if it is the kind of part like a cable guide where you can heat it up and let it conduct the heat to the braze in between the guide and the tube, then you should be able to get the heat in there without getting the tube too hot. However, if you do that, you might as well cut the BO and sand/file the lumps anyway. It pays to have a really hot heat source for this kind of thing since the heat can rise really quickly in the joint before it spreads far and wide. The colder the heat source the worse the heat contamination, but then if you consider 1) above it probably doesn't mater.
NoReg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-09, 10:13 PM   #20
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com
Posts: 22,746
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgedwa View Post
In a related note, could one of you please send me your old-braze ons? I just found this cool GT Pulse track bike that I want to convert into a roadbike and want to attach fittings to it.
I've got a pair of never-used braze-on downtube fittings, and can get you braze-on FD hangers.

-Kurt
__________________
cudak888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:48 PM.