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Old 03-17-09, 05:18 PM   #1
Austin Rice
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New Design Help

Hello everybody. I was searching google images the other day and saw a sweet 3D model of a prototype bike. Before I even searched google though, I was wanting to make a hubless bike. So I ended up liking this model the most:







So then, for a few hours, I looked over the design and found most of it's flaws. I then opened Photoshop and made my own design that resembles the 3D model, except I fixed the flaws. This is what I got:



Then, after completely thinking it through, I opened up one of the 3D model pictures up in Photoshop and tweaked it to look like the mach up I did. This is what I am planning on making the entire bike look like:



I ended up adding one more roller to each wheel, so that there is better support.

Also, I came up with a disc brake system that is part of a roller that is on the inside-top of the "fender". The disc would of course be smaller, but it would be attached somehow to the top roller, and the cable runs through the handle bars to the right grip. It is going to have the normal brake lever. This is the braking design:



I will keep this thread updated as I get all the parts and as I build it.

P.S. I have never built a frame before, so I was planning on making a 3D model of the frame and sending it to a bike frame builder. Where can I get this frame made in aluminum for a decent price?

P.P.S. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!!!
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Old 03-17-09, 06:05 PM   #2
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Is this your design or are you modifying a concept posted to the internet?

If its not yours, I'd politely suggest that you at least give credit where credit is due to the original designer, and contact them to enquire about the design. You may find that the reasons you are modifying it may be contrary to the designer's and design's intent and you may find the designer to be very interested in working with you produce a prototype to your standards.

You may want to do a bit more research on hubless wheel concepts as that design wont work. Most hubless wheels that do work the hub is the same size as the rim that it rotates around...
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Old 03-17-09, 07:02 PM   #3
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Credit for the original 3D design goes to Bradford Waugh (http://www.tuvie.com/nulla-minimalis...h-bike-concept). What should I use to allow the wheel to rotate smoothly around the inner ring (hub or whatever you want to call it)? I would think that ball bearings would be too heavy.


**EDIT** How would I make a frame like this? I would need somebody to make it for me. I was thinking of some how making a dye where the aluminum could be poured in and take the shape of the design.

Last edited by Austin Rice; 03-17-09 at 10:49 PM.
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Old 03-17-09, 11:42 PM   #4
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There is a big difference between concept and working prototype.

The concept and your modifications are elegant in design, but doesn't mean they are working or will work

I would suggest that you could use plywood for the frame for a working protype and focus your energies on making the mechanicals work, which appears to be the bigger job.

you might even want to start with solving one problem at a time...ie make a hubless front wheel work and then go for the drive train wheel
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Old 03-17-09, 11:47 PM   #5
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There is a big difference between concept and working prototype.

The concept and your modifications are elegant in design, but doesn't mean they are working or will work

I would suggest that you could use plywood for the frame for a working protype and focus your energies on making the mechanicals work, which appears to be the bigger job.

you might even want to start with solving one problem at a time...ie make a hubless front wheel work and then go for the drive train wheel

Okay. I will start with the front wheel, then the back. For the drive train, I was going to have it in a separate housing so that the whole drive train could be removed when necessary. The housing would slide and into the rear of the frame and would be bolted back onto the frame. Any ideas on how to get that to work?
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Old 03-17-09, 11:52 PM   #6
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I am not getting this, without spokes the wheel has very little strength, even if the arm between roller and ground is low.

There are plastic/ceramic bearings that are used in sails tracks and such, very light and tough.

The hubless motocycles don't have a problem with a really heavy billet wheel.
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Old 03-18-09, 12:08 AM   #7
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You see...my main objective is to make a crazy cool, one-of-a-kind road bike by the middle of May. That gives me close to two months. I will only ride it short distances, unless I find a nice course near my house.

Would you happen to know of a website that sells good quality plastic/ceramic ball bearings? How many would I need if I were to fit them between two rims? One rim will be rotating while the other is solidly attached to the fork.
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Old 03-18-09, 12:17 PM   #8
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That is the dumbest freaking idea i have ever seen. The design is there to do something different, but is FAR from practical.

And if you are going to try to make one of those its going to cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars.
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Old 03-18-09, 12:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Austin Rice View Post
You see...my main objective is to make a crazy cool, one-of-a-kind road bike by the middle of May. That gives me close to two months. I will only ride it short distances, unless I find a nice course near my house.
.
No way, if your goal is 2 months you only hope is to use standard components.... go look at the alt bike forum for some off the wall designs, but it doesn't appear from your posts that you have the basic knowledge to pull this off.

Last edited by squirtdad; 03-18-09 at 02:23 PM. Reason: removed T word
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Old 03-18-09, 01:17 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
There is a big difference between concept and working prototype.

The concept and your modifications are elegant in design, but doesn't mean they are working or will work

I would suggest that you could use plywood for the frame for a working protype and focus your energies on making the mechanicals work, which appears to be the bigger job.

you might even want to start with solving one problem at a time...ie make a hubless front wheel work and then go for the drive train wheel
Actually I think solving the drive wheel might be easier, since the forces on the wheel and its support are simpler.
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Old 03-18-09, 01:53 PM   #11
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Let's avoid throwing the "T" word around here folks. Guy has a concept and wants to talk through some of the problems and hopefully get some feedback on the answers. If you don't want to participate in that, fine, there are plenty of other threads you can comment on. Thank you.
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Old 03-18-09, 06:25 PM   #12
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I find this to be very interesting. However, I do not understand your braking system. Also, what kind of wheel would withstand the forces without more support? I'm excited to see how this turns out.
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Old 03-19-09, 12:49 PM   #13
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I am familiar with not only the bike but the bike's designer as well and have discussed this concept with him on numerous occasions. Moreover it has been discussed at long length and with some vehemence in other forums on the net. That bike does not exist physically. The images you posted are digital renderings of a CAD model.

Its safe to say that that hubless wheel design on the bike will not work with current technology. While that solution is an elegant one, its functionality is dependent on some pretty advanced materials, molding and production techniques most of which do not exist outside a lab. A working one off prototype will cost a pile and take much longer than 2 months.

Also its not a good thing to go an "borrow" a concept design from a designer to make for yourself without either getting the OK from the designer, getting their input or hiring them outright. Its called "knocking off" and really is not a smart thing to do karmic-ly or legally.

If you "like it" or respond to it use that as a starting point point for your own custom work. Design your own thing. Go nuts. You'll actually have more fun doing it.
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Old 03-19-09, 02:10 PM   #14
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Him and I were talking the other day.
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Old 03-19-09, 03:43 PM   #15
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looks like the front tire will be getting rubbed on by the "fork" crown. The support rollers on the underside of the top of the wheel are doing what exactly? Force from above (bike+rider weight) is going to be pushing the rollers away from the front wheel rim. unless they are running in a channel or something ..?

and then you have lateral forces. (sideways pushing forces) With the wheel only held at the top there, any lateral forces will bend that rim like silly putty... unless its made of some sci-fi material designed with sci-fi engineering knowledge.. I do like the gear driven rear wheel.. pretty slick.. but the same support and rigidity concerns apply there as well.

Im all for pushing the limit, but this is quite a push. Looks like an ID student's CAD rendering project. A fertile ground to pull (steal, actually) snippets of ideas from, but foolhardy to try and produce into a rideable machine.
~Steve
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Old 03-19-09, 04:24 PM   #16
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Okay people. I have officially abandoned hope on this project. However, I have created a design (yes, I am the designer this time) that will cost WAY less than this design would have. Besides, for my design, you can use a road bike frame! I am working on what it would look like in Photoshop.
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