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  1. #1
    GranitCurbVia53x11Sprint Todd Richards's Avatar
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    HOW TO paint white panel on ti frame?

    I have a Dean ti frame, nude. I'd like to paint a sinple white panel on the down-tube, and then add the decals over the top of it.

    I've heard ti is more difficult to paint, but why? I've noticed that most all ti frames have tape or decals cover-up the place where the paint ends and the taked ti begins, so plan on using some stuff to cover over the ends of my white panel.

    I'm hoping this is a small and simple enough job I can just use a high quality rattle can (is that an oxymoron?).

    thanks.
    I once ate 11 Lobsters, no kidding. Dean Compact Ti 'Cross with Chorus; Merlin Agilis with D/A 9 speed; Basso SS; Litespeed Obed XTR 9; Cannondale SS MB rigid disc w/studded tires for snowmobile trails.

  2. #2
    Framebuilder
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    these guys might be able to simplify the process for ya:
    http://www.vcgraphix.com/us/store/pr...cle+Frame+Kits

  3. #3
    AEO
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    Senior Member AEO's Avatar
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    why not just get a decal that has that white box and lettering on it?
    Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
    http://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm

  4. #4
    THE Materials Oracle Falanx's Avatar
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    Titanium is difficult to paint for the same reason that aluminium is - traditional paint chemistries don't adhere well to the oxide films on the surface of metals like titanium, aluminium, magnesium etc.

    Whenever you paint aluminium you need an etch primer, or an equivalnet chemsitry, and titanium is just the same. The difference is in what you use for the job. Aluminium, well you can use Alochrom or its equivalents, or a reputable manufacturer's etch primer, usually based on phosphoric acid.

    Titanium works with the following:

    1ml methyl orange (a pH indicator)
    1ml water
    10ml methanol, ethanol or propanol (NOT methylated spirits)
    10ml xylene
    10ml glacial acetic acid

    make up to one litre with butanone.

    Now, the likelihood is that you can't come up with all of those as pure chemicals, unless you work in or near a lab or such. If you can, you essentially add them together in the order they're listed and wipe them onto the area you need to paint, properly masked off with a paper masking tape, a few minutes before painting.

    Your only other practical option is to find a specialist paint shop that deals with titanium.
    "While my father fought for you, I learnt. While my father glorified your petty administration, I learnt. While he longed every day for our line, Adunís line, to be restored, I learnt. He sent me away to bring the Dark Templar back when the time was right!
    "And you tell me that I cannot do this? That I cannot feel the weight of the universe?
    "Damn you, Tellan! Aldaris killed my father!"

  5. #5
    Senior Member Nessism's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falanx View Post
    Titanium is difficult to paint for the same reason that aluminium is - traditional paint chemistries don't adhere well to the oxide films on the surface of metals like titanium, aluminium, magnesium etc.

    Whenever you paint aluminium you need an etch primer, or an equivalnet chemsitry, and titanium is just the same. The difference is in what you use for the job. Aluminium, well you can use Alochrom or its equivalents, or a reputable manufacturer's etch primer, usually based on phosphoric acid.

    Titanium works with the following:

    1ml methyl orange (a pH indicator)
    1ml water
    10ml methanol, ethanol or propanol (NOT methylated spirits)
    10ml xylene
    10ml glacial acetic acid

    make up to one litre with butanone.

    Now, the likelihood is that you can't come up with all of those as pure chemicals, unless you work in or near a lab or such. If you can, you essentially add them together in the order they're listed and wipe them onto the area you need to paint, properly masked off with a paper masking tape, a few minutes before painting.

    Your only other practical option is to find a specialist paint shop that deals with titanium.
    Holy crap. You just convinced me to never attempt painting Ti.
    Becareful buying/selling bike parts on-line. I learned the hard way. :(

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  6. #6
    Randomhead
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    Teledyne convinced me never to touch titanium 30 years ago. They actually painted a few frames before they gave up the ghost.

  7. #7
    THE Materials Oracle Falanx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nessism View Post
    Holy crap. You just convinced me to never attempt painting Ti.
    That's the easy primer.
    "While my father fought for you, I learnt. While my father glorified your petty administration, I learnt. While he longed every day for our line, Adunís line, to be restored, I learnt. He sent me away to bring the Dark Templar back when the time was right!
    "And you tell me that I cannot do this? That I cannot feel the weight of the universe?
    "Damn you, Tellan! Aldaris killed my father!"

  8. #8
    Psycholist radshark's Avatar
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    Food for thought -
    I recently saw a video from Lynskey were they polish a section of the frame, apply a decal, sandblast the frame, then remove the decal to reveal a nice shiny lettering on the tube...

    Looked kinda nice...
    -R.

  9. #9
    THE Materials Oracle Falanx's Avatar
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    On a similar note, you could carefully mask off the frame to the same effect with a coupla layers of aluminium tape and then gently waft a blowtorch over area that remains exposed to heat-tint the tubing... You wouldn't harm it but you'd get some lovely straw through purple colours :-)
    "While my father fought for you, I learnt. While my father glorified your petty administration, I learnt. While he longed every day for our line, Adunís line, to be restored, I learnt. He sent me away to bring the Dark Templar back when the time was right!
    "And you tell me that I cannot do this? That I cannot feel the weight of the universe?
    "Damn you, Tellan! Aldaris killed my father!"

  10. #10
    Psycholist radshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falanx View Post
    On a similar note, you could carefully mask off the frame to the same effect with a coupla layers of aluminium tape and then gently waft a blowtorch over area that remains exposed to heat-tint the tubing... You wouldn't harm it but you'd get some lovely straw through purple colours :-)
    Ohhh .. that sounds cool. Any chance of posting a pic ...
    -R.

  11. #11
    THE Materials Oracle Falanx's Avatar
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    I'd love to, but I'm afraid my bank balance is incompatible with titanium frames ATM, and I don't think Work would be too happy to let me just roast some Rolls Royce ECU brackets ;-)
    "While my father fought for you, I learnt. While my father glorified your petty administration, I learnt. While he longed every day for our line, Adunís line, to be restored, I learnt. He sent me away to bring the Dark Templar back when the time was right!
    "And you tell me that I cannot do this? That I cannot feel the weight of the universe?
    "Damn you, Tellan! Aldaris killed my father!"

  12. #12
    Senior Member
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    Take it to a local powdercoater, shouldn't cost much especially if you mask it yourself

  13. #13
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    Google up titanium anodizing. You'll see that about all it takes is a voltage source and water and some chemistry from the laundry room.

    You change the color by adjusting the voltage and can use that to create lettering.

  14. #14
    THE Materials Oracle Falanx's Avatar
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    Woah there horsey!

    I'm afraid not everything on the intertubes is quite as easy as it sounds. The principle you refer to is sound, yes, but unfortunately it's not potential difference that causes the change on oxide colour, it's the current density, just like any other plating or electrochemical operation. As current density is directly proportional to the sectional area of the sample and the length of it, every single tube will oxidise to different colours at the same applied voltage and applied time. Lettering the way you're suggestign will require huge amounts of chemically resistant masking.

    Second, unless your laundry room uses HF, I'm calling BS on what you've found and has been put about. There's a reason why titanium etchants in the metallurgical lab use hydrofluoric acid, and that's because extant titanium dioxide isn't coming off with anything less oxidising. To make pretty oxide colours, you need to make fresh oxide and once it's formed in a normal atmosphere, it takes a lot to thicken it off to produce the brirefringence events that cause the perceived colour.

    Long story short, that means you're going to need to do a lot of experimenting to get the right colours you want, which itself means access to a lot of titanium tube of the same shape as your frame's.

    Not a cheap option.

    Or you could just keep trying until you get the right colour, wire-wooling the oxide back till it's thin enough to be clear again. I don't recommend that either.

    Sorry to be a spoilsport....
    "While my father fought for you, I learnt. While my father glorified your petty administration, I learnt. While he longed every day for our line, Adunís line, to be restored, I learnt. He sent me away to bring the Dark Templar back when the time was right!
    "And you tell me that I cannot do this? That I cannot feel the weight of the universe?
    "Damn you, Tellan! Aldaris killed my father!"

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