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Framebuilders Thinking about a custom frame? Lugged vs Fillet Brazed. Different Frame materials? Newvex or Pacenti Lugs? why get a custom Road, Mountain, or Track Frame? Got a question about framebuilding? Lets discuss framebuilding at it's finest.

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Old 12-04-09, 11:13 AM   #1
mudboy
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Acquiring Nervex or Newvex lug sets

I'm collecting bits for a frame. I'd REALLY like to find a set of Nervex lugs, but Richard Sachs' Newvex series would also work...the problem is, Sachs only sells frame components to builders. Does anyone know of a greymarket source for Newvex lugs?

Thanks

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Old 12-04-09, 03:32 PM   #2
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I've never ordered from Richard Sachs, but they're listed on his website. http://www.richardsachs.com/rsachstoys.html

Does he verify that you're a frame builder before fulfilling your order online?
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Old 12-04-09, 05:21 PM   #3
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Does he verify that you're a frame builder before fulfilling your order online?
That was the idea. On the another board there was a lot of boosting of professional qualifications, talk about insurance. You can probably still find the thread. There was some talk about the S&S couplings which aren't sold retail either, and I think he became convinced that selling his lugs to the hoi polloi was a bad idea. I never understood it, why he would want bikes out there that could in any way be mistaken as his, even if made by pros, didn't compute. Though that wasn't the issue.

The bike thing kinda mystifies me. On the one hand there is this charmingly naive belief in insurance, while on the other there is this fear of the amateur (liability wise). In most cases the amateur thing is a shield while the pro is (insert large picture of screw). Take the whole aircraft thing where the fact something is built by an amateur is the actual government strategy around the cost of law suits. Anyway, it is what it is.
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Old 12-04-09, 09:59 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Peterpan1 View Post
That was the idea. On the another board there was a lot of boosting of professional qualifications, talk about insurance. You can probably still find the thread. There was some talk about the S&S couplings which aren't sold retail either, and I think he became convinced that selling his lugs to the hoi polloi was a bad idea. I never understood it, why he would want bikes out there that could in any way be mistaken as his, even if made by pros, didn't compute. Though that wasn't the issue.

The bike thing kinda mystifies me. On the one hand there is this charmingly naive belief in insurance, while on the other there is this fear of the amateur (liability wise). In most cases the amateur thing is a shield while the pro is (insert large picture of screw). Take the whole aircraft thing where the fact something is built by an amateur is the actual government strategy around the cost of law suits. Anyway, it is what it is.
I am not going to speak for Richard or about liability
but I will say this
"charmingly naive belief in insurance"
is a strange perception that does not sit well with me and I cannot understand how it would mystify you.
Any builder who takes $ for their frame work or gives frames to friends at cost etc, Insurance is about care and regard to them.
Just in case they need it

"why he would want bikes out there that could in any way be mistaken as his, even if made by pros,"
Pros make frames with insurance and so they can buy his lugs and many do.

Do you make and then sell aeroplanes to people with out insurance.
Do you make and give aeroplanes to friends with out insurance.
Unlike aeroplanes, there is no certification for the manufacture of frames by pros or Gladdies having fun in the back shed.......
can you even fly an aeroplane , home built or otherwise with out insurance?
and I will add
I do sell lugs and bits to any body
because I pay for product liabilitly insurance to all goodies sold to every one, including those in the USA.

is that "charmingly naive" ?

or a waste of my hard earned dollars?
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Old 12-05-09, 01:54 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by mudboy View Post
I'm collecting bits for a frame. I'd REALLY like to find a set of Nervex lugs, but Richard Sachs' Newvex series would also work...the problem is, Sachs only sells frame components to builders. Does anyone know of a greymarket source for Newvex lugs?
IIRC, Sachs' Newvex lugs are only for modern "oversize" tubing.

There are a couple sets of NOS Nervex lugs for standard tubing on eBay right now, though:

Item # 120502140290

Item # 120502140725
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Old 12-06-09, 04:04 PM   #6
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Thanks, John! I purchased the single set...now I just need to find a BB shell. I bought a set of Campy 1010B dropouts last week, and they arrived yesterday.
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Old 12-06-09, 06:26 PM   #7
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Can the Newvex lugs be ordered from ceeway in England?
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Old 12-06-09, 07:35 PM   #8
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They're listed. http://www.ceeway.com/NEWPARTSPAGES/lugs.htm
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Old 12-07-09, 12:24 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Silverbraze View Post
I am not going to speak for Richard or about liability
but I will say this
"charmingly naive belief in insurance"
is a strange perception that does not sit well with me and I cannot understand how it would mystify you.
Any builder who takes $ for their frame work or gives frames to friends at cost etc, Insurance is about care and regard to them.
Just in case they need it

"why he would want bikes out there that could in any way be mistaken as his, even if made by pros,"
Pros make frames with insurance and so they can buy his lugs and many do.

Do you make and then sell aeroplanes to people with out insurance.
Do you make and give aeroplanes to friends with out insurance.
Unlike aeroplanes, there is no certification for the manufacture of frames by pros or Gladdies having fun in the back shed.......
can you even fly an aeroplane , home built or otherwise with out insurance?
and I will add
I do sell lugs and bits to any body
because I pay for product liabilitly insurance to all goodies sold to every one, including those in the USA.

is that "charmingly naive" ?

or a waste of my hard earned dollars?
I must say I prefer your approach to Richard's for selfish reasons, as I have a set of your lugs sitting on my desk waiting for my abilities to warrant using them.
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Old 12-07-09, 01:37 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
IIRC, Sachs' Newvex lugs are only for modern "oversize" tubing.

There are a couple sets of NOS Nervex lugs for standard tubing on eBay right now, though:

Item # 120502140290

Item # 120502140725
John, thanks for those links. I'm tempted, but since the seller says they were found in "Europe about six years ago" and Nervex Professional lugs were available for standard British tubing (25.4mm top tube, 28.6mm down tube and seat tube) or French tubing (26mm top tube, 28mm down tube and seat tube), I asked the seller if he could confirm they are intended for use with standard British tubing.

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Old 12-07-09, 03:44 PM   #11
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"Do you make and then sell aeroplanes to people with out insurance.
Do you make and give aeroplanes to friends with out insurance."

I don't, but it is an everyday thing. My main point is that sales to amateurs are a proven means of limiting liability. I think not selling to amateurs was a decision one supplier made based on requirements of a particular policy. Not necessarily a broad strategy that everyone in the whole manufacturing world should take into consideration. Of course anyone you choose not to sell to will lower your liability to some extent.

""charmingly naive belief in insurance"
is a strange perception that does not sit well with me and I cannot understand how it would mystify you.
Any builder who takes $ for their frame work or gives frames to friends at cost etc, Insurance is about care and regard to them.
Just in case they need it"

Good point I would probably put that kind of thing in my brochure also. People need to be realistic about whether they are really going to achieve coverage, and whether their situation is the same as some other builder. People tend to confuse the fact there are nice people selling policies, with the idea that insurance companies are equally reliable about settling claims above certain thresholds. I used to be an insurance industry lobbyist, and I also was personally involved in a large claim. It's not at all like the nursery rhymes.
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Old 12-07-09, 04:59 PM   #12
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John, thanks for those links. I'm tempted, but since the seller says they were found in "Europe about six years ago" and Nervex Professional lugs were available for standard British tubing (25.4mm top tube, 28.6mm down tube and seat tube) or French tubing (26mm top tube, 28mm down tube and seat tube), I asked the seller if he could confirm they are intended for use with standard British tubing.
The seller replied:

"For use w/British size tubing!!! In fact, these lugs came from a retired U.K. framebuilder, sitting in a crate from Nervex w/the original invoice dated 1958. Thanks for your interest and let me know if you have any other questions. Take care.

- bitsandbobs77"
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Old 12-07-09, 05:54 PM   #13
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Well, I went ahead and pulled the trigger on 120503493901.
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