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Old 04-16-10, 08:03 AM   #1
Bianchigirll 
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Frame Table

Hello Everyone. I try and search this but I seemed to get a hit on every thread with frame in it. does anyone still use or remember these? also is it frame table or frametable?

I have this crazy idea of having a dinette type table made from corrian or some synthic countertop the size of a frame table holes and all.

first where would I find demensions for one. second where on earth would one find the manderels for one?

or are they no longer in fashion and if I start advertising that I am looking for might it popup for sale?


thanks for you help
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Others but still loved,; '80 RIGI, '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '09 Motobecane SOLD, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape
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Old 04-16-10, 08:54 AM   #2
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are you talking about an alignment table? Various sources sell them or the parts to them. Bringhelli and Strawberry come to mind. Corian is a bad material for this, some people use granite.
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Old 04-16-10, 09:14 AM   #3
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AH yes an alignment table. that might get me better results. I thought corian might be a bit soft but perhaps some of the fake granites might be a comprimise between something usable, not too heavy, and affordable.

maybe a hightop or barheight cocktail table may be a better idea hmmmm
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Others but still loved,; '80 RIGI, '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '09 Motobecane SOLD, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape
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Old 04-16-10, 10:00 AM   #4
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AH yes an alignment table. that might get me better results. I thought corian might be a bit soft but perhaps some of the fake granites might be a comprimise between something usable, not too heavy, and affordable.

maybe a hightop or barheight cocktail table may be a better idea hmmmm
I have a Bringheli C-channel "alignment table" it seems entirely adequate for the purpose so far and shipping it did not break the budget as a "real" table would have. If I could have afforded to get a real table shipped that would have been preferable as they are a little easier to work with in my limited experience.

It been suggested by people with far more experience than my self that a 2'X3' table is really about as small as can be reasonably used in true table form. B grade granite at this size is not so heavy as to be unmovable with a few friends and a twelve pack and is not that expensive.
In my opinion something about 3' by 4' at the proper height would be optimum, as it is possible to go larger and have issues there, just as going to small causes issues.

BB posts are available several places online, and seem to fall in the $300 +/- range. I'll add Doug Fattic and Alex Meade to the list of those that can supply posts and know that there are more out there I'm forgetting.

What are you looking to spend? Affordable has different meanings to different people.
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Old 04-18-10, 09:22 AM   #5
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All the alignment methods I`ve read about are either very vague (string and ruler) or very expensive (precision table). Does anybody know of an "in between" method?
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Old 04-18-10, 09:58 AM   #6
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We got a small 2'x1.5' cast iron plate with a used Bringheli BB post, both fairly inexpensively. We have not used it yet, but it is probably the smallest practical size, with 76cm on the diagonal. We will need to rotate the frame around during alignment.

In theory a long channel (like the Bringheli I suppose) is all you need I think, as long as you can rotate the frame around some post and have some space to move a surface gauge around (or use finely threaded screws from the bottom?). And I would tend to think the steel channels you can buy are sufficiently flat (i.e. grounding them flat might not be necessary... considering how we true and dish wheels). I also envision making a cheap BB post out of old BB cups with the threads ground off...
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Old 04-18-10, 11:45 AM   #7
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All the alignment methods I`ve read about are either very vague (string and ruler) or very expensive (precision table). Does anybody know of an "in between" method?
my additional cost above the price of my lathe and my milling machine were very small. I use the milling machine table for an alignment table, and I got a dropout centering guage from David Bohm
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Old 04-18-10, 01:48 PM   #8
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I'll mention several different ideas that fall under the category of checking alignment. First off if I could have only one decent main tool to make frames it would be a full sized metal alignment table. I would get this before some kind of fixture. It can even become a fixture by placing blocks on it made by Alex Meade. Instead of doing a drawing on paper, it can be done right on the table. A 2' X 3' works if the post is in the southeast corner. However I much prefer something closer to 3' X 4' because that allows space for the rear triangle. I use it for all sorts of purposes like getting bridging straight, brazing lever bosses exactly on the side, making sure seat stay cap flutes are not twisted, binder bolts are square in all dimensions to the seat tube, etc. If I see those parts off, I assume the builder is careless with the rest of the frame as well.

However I understand that some don't have the money or space for a full sized beast for hobby building so something smaller is appropriate. Besides the channel and mill bed already mentioned, one idea used often in England in the classic days (I visited lots of builders in the UK in the 70's before, during and after my apprenticeship) is a long piece of heavy angle iron. It isn't ground flat. At one end is a way to fasten down the bb shell similar to what any alignment system has. On the other end is an adjustable screw with the point rounded down. The concept is that the frame can be rotated around the bb and the bolt pointer can be pre-adjusted so that it just touches the seat tube and down tube if they are in alignment. Bend them straight as necessary. The bolt has to be set by an already straight frame. It is possible to sight along the lines of the seat tube and compare that to the head tube line to see if the head tube is twisted.

One big concern about a full sized table is the weight. Some don't know how long they will be at one place or work in a tough-to-get-at-space. Moving around a heavy table isn't an option. A steel or granite table weighs at least 700lbs. I experimented with getting a cast aluminum table that is 32" X 48" from the Wolverine Bronze Co. It is cast with webbing underneath and they grind the top flat (as well as the pads on the bottom) and bore a hole for the post. On the pads in each corner on the underside are tapped holes to accept legs that just bolt on (that have some length adjustment at the bottom). I paid just over $1000 for the table and another $400 for the legs. My post cost me (which I also sell) another $300. Aluminum is softer than cast iron and requires some care but mine has held up will under normal student use. However at 170lbs, it can be moved by a couple of people or just a carrying cart of some kind. (I also have other cast iron tables.)

A tool everyone should have is a straight edge with an fine thread adjustable screw. I use mine for making sure the rear dropouts are equal distant from the frame centerline. I place it against the head tube and seat tube and adjust the screw so it just touches the inside face of the DO. Then I do the same on the other side to see if the other dropout face is the same distance away from the centerline as well. It could also be used as your front triangle alignment tool by placing it against the face of the bb shell and setting the screw on the DT and ST near the BB and seeing if the tubes remain the same distance from the screw at their other ends. Mine is made out of some kind of aluminum channel and the smallest profile (1" X 1/2"?) from 80/20 should work.

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Old 04-18-10, 02:38 PM   #9
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Keep and eye on craigs or kijiji for either a milling machine table, or a granite table, Corian is really expensive, and not stable. Actually wood is a better choice, if one knows how to work it. Very easy to make perfectly flat, and dimensionally stable, however it burns if you also want to tack on it. I cna go into this, but about to be logged off...
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Old 04-18-10, 04:48 PM   #10
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I've wondered if a butcher block maple bench top with a sheet of stainless plate on top of it wouldn't work just fine as an alignment table.
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Old 04-21-10, 08:11 PM   #11
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my additional cost above the price of my lathe and my milling machine were very small. I use the milling machine table for an alignment table, and I got a dropout centering guage from David Bohm
yup, that is my method as well. Id like a few other variations... like using the ht for main true point and disregarding the bb entirely, but one needs a full table for this. oh ya, and go to a granite counter top place, find a remnant for next to nothing. It will probably crack apart in due time, but ive trued many bikes this way, and if you can make a base for it, some serious wood, id think it would last a LONG time, and typically they are plenty true for bike building.
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Old 04-21-10, 08:36 PM   #12
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crossing my fingers, I may have a line on some granite surface plates
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Old 04-26-10, 07:45 AM   #13
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All the alignment methods I`ve read about are either very vague (string and ruler) or very expensive (precision table). Does anybody know of an "in between" method?
I tend to think the string methods are pretty accurate for what they attempt to do, but there are frame measurements and alignment checks that aren't addressed by string methods.
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Old 04-27-10, 07:04 PM   #14
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AH yes an alignment table. that might get me better results. I thought corian might be a bit soft but perhaps some of the fake granites might be a comprimise between something usable, not too heavy, and affordable.

maybe a hightop or barheight cocktail table may be a better idea hmmmm
fake granite tends to cost more than the real stuff.
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Old 04-28-10, 01:13 AM   #15
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Enco has sales on granite surface plates with free shipping on a fairly regular basis. I do think we just missed the free shipping deal though.
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Old 04-28-10, 10:34 AM   #16
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Enco has sales on granite surface plates with free shipping on a fairly regular basis. I do think we just missed the free shipping deal though.
Those free shipping deals seem to exclude truck freight (which is what a 24X36 ships as) as I read them. shrug, but 125 + shipping still shouldn't be horrid.

Grizzly's everyday price of $159+$94 shipping in the lower 48 may be hard to beat.
I just went through this exercise and got some pretty staggering shipping quotes back in trying to move a 24X36 plate to the Seattle area for pick-up.
As always YMMV based on location and google skills
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