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Framebuilders Thinking about a custom frame? Lugged vs Fillet Brazed. Different Frame materials? Newvex or Pacenti Lugs? why get a custom Road, Mountain, or Track Frame? Got a question about framebuilding? Lets discuss framebuilding at it's finest.

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Old 06-25-10, 10:30 PM   #1
Abacus
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Surly 4130 or Tange #1

OK, I have a dilemma.

I have a brand new Surly Pacer frame hanging on my wall, ready to be built up. I bought it as a boxed complete bike a few months ago, but decided I didn't like the color So it's just been hanging there while I decide whether to have it re-powder coated or not. I haven't even got around to fitting the star nut.

Just recently a mid 80's lugged steel frame has come up, and being the retro grouch that I am, it has attracted my attention. The original manufacturer's make and model decals are gone, but it is Tange No 1 tubing. I'm guessing it's a Japanese something-or-other. I don't believe its a 70's or early 80's frame because it's built for 700C wheels, not 27" It has a bit of surface rust, and if I buy it I will have it stripped and powder coated. I would sell the Pacer frame.

So, all things being equal, with size, geometry, etc, what would be the better ride - a bike built with Surly's 4130 or a bike built with Tange No 1? We are not talking Tange Prestige here, were talking about the best of Tange's second rung range.
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Old 06-26-10, 05:35 AM   #2
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I really like my #1 Centurion
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Old 06-26-10, 11:39 AM   #3
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Tange "Champion" tubing *IS* 4130 Chome-moly, just like the Surly. The #1 designation means it is the lightest Champion tube set. Tange "Prestige" tubing was heat-treated Champion #1 tubing, so the frame you're considering would likely be just as light as a similar frame built from Prestige tubing, just slightly lower strength because it wasn't heat-treated.

Here's an old (pre-Prestige) Tange catalog, if you're interested:
http://www.os2.dhs.org/~john/catalogs/tange-catalog.pdf

The Surly frame could be any gauge 4130 tubing. Probably a decent frame, but I'd personally prefer the lugged frame if only for aesthetic reasons.
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Old 06-26-10, 05:26 PM   #4
joseph senger
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sell the surly. I love the prestige but i have had it crimp. Champion is notably flexier, but honestly if it's for ripping around town, good on it for being flexy.

JohnD
Thanks for the link.
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Old 06-27-10, 08:01 AM   #5
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Thanks for the info. It ties up with my own thoughts, being that there wouldbn't be much in it. And yes, my main interest in the old frame is the aesthetics.

I expect the Tange to be a bit lighter, but also to flex a bit more. I'm not racing, and I like comfort, so that doesn't bother me.

Looks like I'm selling an unused Pacer frame.
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Old 06-27-10, 12:51 PM   #6
wrk101
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Depending on the sticker, it could be early 1980s. My Tange Champion 1 Lotus Classique is 1983/1984 timeframe.

+1 Go for the lugged steel.
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Old 07-01-10, 10:09 PM   #7
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Looks like you've already made your decision, so I'll back you up on it. I had a Surly. It was a fine bike, but it was really stiff, and I found it unpleasant. That's heavy gauge tubing, regardless of the particular steel used. The Tange #1 bike, OTOH, is light gauge steel and will give a much more pleasant ride, on average. The caveat is that if you are 6'4" and 300 pounds, the Surly is going to be a much better bike for you.
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