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Framebuilders Thinking about a custom frame? Lugged vs Fillet Brazed. Different Frame materials? Newvex or Pacenti Lugs? why get a custom Road, Mountain, or Track Frame? Got a question about framebuilding? Lets discuss framebuilding at it's finest.

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Old 07-12-10, 03:13 PM   #1
wilfonzo
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frameforum.org? not working?

I am not able to register for this site, is it still up and going. I can't see any of the posts so I don't know how recent things are. I would gladly donate if it gets me in, but i have emailed them with no replies.

anyone know whats going on?
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Old 07-12-10, 03:20 PM   #2
Allen
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It's just you.
It's showing up fine for me.
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Old 07-12-10, 03:29 PM   #3
wilfonzo
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It shows up, it just wont let me register, so I can't see any of the posts.

I've been trying for the last couple of months.
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Old 07-12-10, 04:22 PM   #4
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It shows up, it just wont let me register, so I can't see any of the posts.

I've been trying for the last couple of months.
I'd venture you're out of luck, neil pulled the plug back in May, and once I logged out I couldn't see the posts anymore.
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Old 07-12-10, 05:22 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Neil from Frameforum
Thank you for your honesty Todd; a rare commodity in this age of the internet-trained expert in practical framebuilding matters.

Your post pretty much encapsulates what I've been saying - and getting slammed for - over the past few years.
When Frameforum was set up 6 years ago, it was intended to be a place to discuss framebuilding, not serve as some sort of DIY, build-your-own correspondence course in how to stick some tubes together.

But that's the way it has turned out, thanks to the current 'wanna be a framebuilder for a day' craze.

Ask any trained professional framebuilder (past or present) if the current attitude of 'build first, learn after' is advancing the cause of framebuilding and the answer will surely be 'no'.
You may get the odd self-taught machinist with a website and a Paterek Manual who'll tell you 'sure, that's how I learned', but that's hardly a recommendation.
Basing a business model with the emphasis on viral marketing savvy over genuine craftsmanship does nothing for the framebuilding scene in the long run; it just breeds complacency towards learning genuine framebuilding skills and dilutes the talent pool to the point where there is little point in choosing a handmade bike over a factory-built offering.

Thankfully, there are still a few out there who understand what framebuilding is all about and will battle on in the face of the way things have become.

In the long run, it may be of benefit to them; in a few years time there's sure to be plenty of cheap tooling, tubes and fittings to be picked up from those who thought it was all about buying the fixture then loading Flikr into their browser.

So with that in mind, it's probably the time to call a halt to the endless regurgitating of questions with no real answers (at least, not the right ones) and close the forum to new topics and replies. The place will serve as an archive until the time comes when the donations in the Frameforum kitty can't meet the hosting and server bills.

After that, who knows?

There are plenty of other forums and websites out there where the same old questions will be asked; where the same tired answers will be cut and pasted by the dreamers, and where you'll be persuaded - ever so subtly - to buy this or that gadget, or this or that set of lugs, or dropouts, or filler.
Or, heaven forbid, be persuaded to part with a couple of thousand dollars for the 'privilege' of standing and watching a frame being built, with maybe (if you're lucky), the odd bit of brazing thrown in.

Good Luck to one and all, especially those who made possible the forum's survival over the years.
..
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Old 07-12-10, 07:20 PM   #6
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well, I guess that answers that. Looks like I missed the boat. Stinks it looks like it was a great source of info. At least they have the archive available to read, which I have read all of by now.

So is this the only forum left? not saying there is anything wrong with it, just wondering.
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Old 07-12-10, 08:10 PM   #7
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Yeah although that forum was tense, there was a lot of good info in there.
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Old 07-12-10, 08:19 PM   #8
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I think that was the only forum that has ever thrown me off, and they did it 4 times. So they aren't around? Is it like Badger's pond and it turned out to be a thesis experiment on group dynamics, or whatever, in the end?
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Old 07-12-10, 08:42 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by wilfonzo View Post
well, I guess that answers that. Looks like I missed the boat. Stinks it looks like it was a great source of info. At least they have the archive available to read, which I have read all of by now.

So is this the only forum left? not saying there is anything wrong with it, just wondering.
there is this http://search.bikelist.org/query.asp...rdsPerPage=250
which is mostly hobbiests and some who believe frame building has never improved since 1975
but there is some smart lads there
and a few proffies
and good things to be had

and there is this
http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum...ebuilder-forum
which is more for the established crew or the ones on the way rather than "what is flux and how to use it"
Lots of good viewing in Friday Night Lights
and Smoked Out has all the frame builders stories

as for FF.org.
Neil was not well, he had a good thing going for a while and many of us supported FF with $
but after NAHBS 2008 there was a turn {and a falling out with NAHBS**
and Neil was part of the movement to start the frame builder's collective in the early moments of putting it togeather
and it was hard to under stand the yuk that started, but there was health problems
and then Neil started lot of editorial comment and editing and deleting and differences in opinion
a lot of nasty stuff
I asked Neil once or twice what's up?
I never had a blow up with him or a bad word
I just got tired and deregistered
and when I did, I was blocked from even viewing. I am not sure if all my pics and posts ever survived his culling. All the pre 2007 stuff was lost in some server problem.
I really enjoyed it before the big end of 2007 melt down.
I spent a lot of daily time there
but alas
it is not surprising
the end was coming
__________________
it's steel
it's lugs
let the others get on with the madness
www.llewellynbikes.com
www.framebuilders.org
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Old 07-13-10, 06:41 AM   #10
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Thanks for the info. velocipede salon is great. bike list is pretty antiquated, it's going to be hard for me to get the hang of it.

too bad for FF.org, I wish they would open it up for everyone to view however.
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Old 07-18-10, 02:06 PM   #11
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I think you can find most of the info that was on FF by searching the mailing list archives. I was the last person to post on there before Neil pulled the plug, but not the guy that caused it to happen
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Old 07-18-10, 07:51 PM   #12
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Do tell, what caused it to happen?
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Old 07-18-10, 10:24 PM   #13
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Do tell, what caused it to happen?
somebody bought a jig
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Old 07-19-10, 08:14 AM   #14
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Yes? Do I need a premium account or something.
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Old 07-19-10, 10:30 AM   #15
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the guy made a frame and didn't measure it before he brazed it up. Of course, it was the wrong size. Since it was too big, he wanted to know how to take it apart so he could put it back together. This caused Neil to think he was too encouraging of framebuilding malpractice and pulled the plug.
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Old 07-19-10, 11:26 AM   #16
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Yes? Do I need a premium account or something.
this is what finally did it.

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So, I made the biggest of rookie mistakes... I was so excited to finally braze up a frame in my new jig, that I failed to measure things out. I hand mitred all the tubes a month ago and everything had been collecting dust. So when everything finally came together, and I was ready to actually do the braze work, I didn't measure out lengths of tubes. I bought a Bringheli jig. Despite that it showed up with no assembly instructions, I put it together from pictures I saw online. So I threw the frame in and just got stuff where I thought it ought to be. It wasn't until I took the front triangle out of the jig, and laid it over my drawing that I realized the frame was too big. The DT lug was too far down on the HT, thus throwing everything off. I thought that I had snugged everything up nice and tight, but apparently I should have pushed a little more on the ol' BB. The frame went from a 55cm. to a 58cm. Now that I am done venting.... How to I fix the problem? Can I heat the lugs up red hot and pull them away? Do I do terrible damage to the tubes in the process? Should I just learn from my mistake and order new tubes, all the while keeping this one front triangle as a constant reminder of measure twice, cut once?! Please help...
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Old 07-19-10, 05:29 PM   #17
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Thanks. I can see how he would be torn. I was looking throgh the salon the other day, and there was a big plee for people to pitch and and all contribute, and you just have to know it will all go badly.
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Old 07-22-10, 06:37 AM   #18
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this is what finally did it.
Wow.
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