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Old 07-29-10, 08:36 AM   #1
Shortsocks
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Question about Kaisei 022 tubing.

Hi. First time in this section.
Have a few questions about Kaisei 022.

Background-
I recently purchased a EAI toyo Godzilla frame. Choosing to go with steel over Alum for several reasons, I ordered my frame without having ever actually held one or ridden the frame. Just from research online.

Now, vie ridden and held the EAI bare knuckle frame, Dedacciai COM 12.5 double butted cro-moly, many times and I was under the assumption that it was a very good frame. But after getting my TOYO and opening it at the shop I was blown away.

The Bareknuckle is still, IMO, a wonderful frame. But....I'm confused as to why, I think, this toyo feels better.

I was reading Sheldon Brown and he said this:
"Like stiffness, the specific gravity of a given metal is not significantly affected by the addition of different alloying elements. Although your bike may have a sticker saying "Lite Steel (TM)," in fact, all steel is equally heavy"

This is now very confusing to me. If "ALL" steel is equally heavy, then why is my frame so damned light?

When I picked it up, compared to let's say a, cinelli gazzetta (Columbus steel), it is heavier. BUT, this is in NO WAY a professional method or anything, I starting tapping both frames with my finger, and the TOYO seemed more "hollow" and thin walled. Even my local LBS owner did the same thing...
She noticed that it sounds and feels more "hollow" or thin walled.

I'm very amazed at the material strength and lightness of this frame.

I'm not trying to start a heavy debate or argument between which is better Type of steel.
This is some amazing steel. Even though people keep on telling it's very strong, it just seems like it's very fragile, due to the weight and how "hollow" it feels...

Please help me understand if this is good steel, and if it is really as good as people say it is, why does it have the properties that it's does?

Thanks

Socks
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Old 07-29-10, 09:01 AM   #2
unterhausen
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Sheldon could have said that all steel is equally light and it would have made just as much sense.

as far as riding qualities go, all steel is pretty much equal given the same tubing shape/diameter/wall thickness. If two different bikes respond differently to a ping test, that means they have different thickness tubing. There are lots of reasons to choose between different brands of tubing, ride qualities for a given thickness/diameter really isn't among those reasons.

I'm glad you enjoy your new bike.
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Old 07-29-10, 10:07 PM   #3
JohnDThompson 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shortsocks View Post
I was reading Sheldon Brown and he said this:
"Like stiffness, the specific gravity of a given metal is not significantly affected by the addition of different alloying elements. Although your bike may have a sticker saying "Lite Steel (TM)," in fact, all steel is equally heavy"

This is now very confusing to me. If "ALL" steel is equally heavy, then why is my frame so damned light?
Probably less steel in the frame -- i.e. thinner tubes.

Kaisei 022 is the direct descendant of Ishiwata 022, which was quite nice. It was standard chrome-moly, and the wall thickness and butting matched that of Columbus SL.
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Old 08-02-10, 10:22 AM   #4
Six jours
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I can't find weights for the bikes mentioned anywhere on the web. I do note that the Bareknuckle is made with oversize tubing. It's actually thinner wall than the Kaisei 022. I suspect that the "thinner" sound/feel you get from tapping on the standard gauge Kaisei bike has to do with acoustics rather than reality. The actual metal used in both bikes is pretty close to identical. It's just been applied in different ways, which is causing the differences you're feeling.

In riding, the Kaisei bike is going to be more flexible than the Dedacciai one, which usually makes a bike feel lighter to me. I personally prefer standard diameter steel to oversized.
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