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-   -   searching for true all rounder frame...ideas? (http://www.bikeforums.net/framebuilders/677793-searching-true-all-rounder-frame-ideas.html)

canali 09-05-10 11:02 AM

searching for true all rounder frame...ideas?
 
i may have to sell my riv atlantis as it may be too big (alot of neck stiffness..no vendors here in vancouver bc were carrying them when i purchased online from a riv vendor, so took grant's standover clearance as sole measuring option...bad idea as my upper/lower body not in proportion...found this out when i brought in my atlantis to a very seasoned bike fitter (who also sells Guru customs...has professionally fitted 1000s of people and is very respected: rob wright of caps cycles in surrey bc).

so in not wanting to buy a replacement for each ($$$$$), and I know that i'm asking a potentially 'charged' question: is it possible to have built a bike that can be both a great (loaded) touring machine but also, once unloaded (and even swapping out a lighter set of rims) can be fast and comfortable club rider for randonneuring, centuries etc?...sure I know you can 'lighten' any touring machine by removing rear racks and swapping out lighter wheelsets, but you know what I mean.

one retailer suggested buying a sport bike and 1/using a trailer for touring instead of panniers to not overload it and/or 2/to tweak existing stock bike by some reputable makers to avoid going full custom to save $$$.

am looking at R&E cycles, Davidson, Gunnar and Marinoni (emailed all of them, asking for their imput) and also looking at better quality 'stock' models such as the salsa veya, casserolle and specialized comp tricross.

cheers
canali
vancouver bc

lverhagen 09-05-10 09:49 PM

Are you looking for a new bike, or are you opened to used options? Are you looking for a complete bike or a frameset? In your situation, the bikes built for loaded touring and randonneuring each have different handling characteristics to suit their purpose. You will almost certainly need to make compromises somewhere along the line.

Cheers

canali 09-05-10 10:01 PM

new or used, frame/fork only vs complete...i'm open to both...

ideally,however, it'd be slightly used to save some $$$.

ftwelder 09-06-10 05:00 AM

I have put trailer hitches on exotic sports cars so owners could pull a small trailer for fuel, tools and racing tires so you aren't the first to find yourself in such a pinch. A custom RR frame from a great name like Marinoni or the others with a special lug on the drop for a hitch and a special tube selection to suit the intermittent loads would be off-the-charts cool in my book.

I had some friends that did what they called "credit card touring" using racing bikes. The idea was to ride shorter brisk rides from hotel to hotel, purchasing what was needed while underway.

canali 09-06-10 11:33 AM

thanks ftwelder....richard schwinn of gunnar/waterford replied to my query suggesting either their grand tour or their fast lane bikes...i then replied asking about tweaking either as per a custom order seeking a versatile all rounder that I am...if i get anything I'll add it here accordingly.

http://gunnarbikes.com/site/bikes/fast-lane/
http://gunnarbikes.com/site/bikes/grand-tour/

tuz 09-06-10 11:43 AM

I've also been considering an all-rounder with which can do loaded touring, light touring, commuting and club rides. I don't think it can happen without compromises. For instance you'd want a triple ring and sturdy racks for loaded touring, a compact double, generator hub and small racks for commuting or randonneuring, but higher gears and no fenders, i.e. light weight for group rides. I've tried swapping wheels, removing racks or fenders, but it's a pain frankly.

For adequate performance you probably need two bikes for your intended purposes. If you have to compromise perhaps a TA or VO 46-30 with 13-26 or 12-27 cassette, removable low-rider rack, clip on lights and 28c tires. But long hills fully-loaded will be hard, as keeping up with the group on hills or false flats. I've struggled for the latter, or perhaps I'm just weak :)

canali 09-06-10 11:49 AM

i don't need to add lights and generator hubs and try to be a true randonnuer...all that just adds weight...esp in this day and age when we have amazingly bright and long lasting lcd lights (sure take more batteries in case they die...still much lighter than a generator hub weight)

.and as per fenders....so ideally it'd just be swapping wheel sets and removing a rear rack (but i find maybe that is unnecessary if i were to get a tubus rack instead of nitto...they seem lighter than my nitto rear rack...was quite impressed by their front low rider rack, for instance, vs the much heavier/burlier surly lht touring rack or nitto front rack from rivendell).

so i honestly feel it can be done (or i might be deluding myself ?...)...would love to hear from seasoned framebuilders out there...OR from people who've had this done...ie tweaked a stock model, as ftwelder suggested (interesting that suggestion...thanks)

jtgotsjets 09-18-10 03:21 PM

Cross Check? That's my first thought when people say "all-arounder."

I see you already own one...

canali 09-18-10 03:24 PM

i did own one and have since sold it to a happy bike shop owner (for his wife)
...IMO my allrounder is my riv atlantis.....

now i'm seeking to get a good sport tourer/rando bike (even will see if the guy i sold my riv rambo too (see pics at bottom in my signature...gorgeous bike i should have NEVER parted with ...but needed $$$) was for his wife ,...now 2 yrs later I will contact him to see if he/she will part with it...if not, then the VO rando, gunnar sport, boulder bicycles rando, della santa sport tourer and even a used 2002 marinoni ciclo (only $800) campy gruppo'd out, are my choices.

tsl 09-18-10 06:09 PM

Hampsten Strada Bianca

mudboy 09-18-10 07:36 PM

I built a good one (road standard tubing, parallel 73 angles, 435mm stays, 75mm BB drop, 700c wheels) and am about to build a better one (road OS tubing, similar geometry, 650b wheels)...just need the Fedex guy to bring me my box o' tubes and lugs and bits.

Pete

ftwelder 09-19-10 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mudboy (Post 11486852)
I built a good one (road standard tubing, parallel 73 angles, 435mm stays, 75mm BB drop, 700c wheels) and am about to build a better one (road OS tubing, similar geometry, 650b wheels)...just need the Fedex guy to bring me my box o' tubes and lugs and bits.

Pete

pics?

canali 09-19-10 09:44 AM

yup have read plenty of good things about the hampsten bianca strada frame....also am considering the jitensha ebisu or gunnar sport....even the VO rando (for value).

OR as a 2nd option I will keep my riv atlantis for all rounder/touring/commuting AND look at a lighter sport touring bike I can use for fast club rides/centuries (if so inclined), CC touring.

reason (2nd option) is that it doesn't look like that there is a true all rounder that can truly be on the one hand a loaded touring rig and yet also on the other (even when lighter wheel sets are swapped out/racks removed) that can be as fast as a sport touring/rando bike without some compromises (or am I incorrect?

PS i local randonneur just recently offered me her 2002 marinoni ciclo for only $800 (she and hubby now have 2 custom Naked bikes instead)...shes my height...tt length spec seems good...is campy gruppo'd...wheels set (ambrosia) will need to be replaced in 2 seasons I was told....so will go to see it and take it from there...might be the cheapest way to go
(though ciclo only allows 25cm tires with fenders...or maybe there is some other way newer fender clipon or somthing i could use on that bike (if i buy it) with a 28cm tire ie riv's roly poly)

(
Quote:

Originally Posted by tsl (Post 11486532)


repechage 09-19-10 11:17 AM

The legs make you fast. You might enjoy going downhill on a bike designed for unloaded use and without load, but loaded in front just changes so much.
Of the three bikes you have provided links to, they all appear pretty similar in position, the bars are almost level with the seat, the initial Atlantis (orange one) is a much more handsome frame, but that has nothing to do with size. the tilting down of the seat on that indicates to me something is not right for you.

If you are going to set up a new unloaded road bike in the same basic position as the others, then my question is why bother. You are not going to get the performance out of that frame anyway.

mudboy 09-19-10 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ftwelder (Post 11488452)
pics?

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...r-builds/page3

Frame at the top of the page, complete bike further down :)

gruppo 10-07-10 01:36 PM

If by "All rounder" you mean (1. Able to run single speed/fixed, geared (2x or 3x), or belt drive; (2. Use flat or drop bars; Can load up with racks; High quality steel frame; Good for everything from fixie urban use to fast club rides to touring to off road with 29'r tires, etc.; cool looking...., then there's only one choice: Van Dessel Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.

canali 10-07-10 02:41 PM

LOVE the style (differernt!...beautiful curves)...but am not familiar with the namebrand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gruppo (Post 11586760)
If by "All rounder" you mean (1. Able to run single speed/fixed, geared (2x or 3x), or belt drive; (2. Use flat or drop bars; Can load up with racks; High quality steel frame; Good for everything from fixie urban use to fast club rides to touring to off road with 29'r tires, etc.; cool looking...., then there's only one choice: Van Dessel Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.


NormanF 10-19-10 02:14 AM

Standard geometry in front and touring bike geometry in the back. So you can fit in big tires if you want.


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