Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 11 of 11
  1. #1
    Senior Member mudboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Collegeville, PA
    My Bikes
    Ruckelshaus Randonneur, Specialized Allez (early 90's, steel), Ruckelshaus Path Bomber currently being built
    Posts
    1,353
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Tubing choice for a fatty (me)

    I'm about to embark on my second frame, a 650b wheeled "path bomber" - a bike primarily designed for the packed gravel paths in my area, but also at home running to the store and riding around the neighborhood with my kids.

    My initial thought is to use 9/6/9 road OS tubing with a lugset (one of Dazzas) built for a sloping top tube design. I built my first frame from Columbus SPX, so similar butting, but standard diameter. However, I'm using Ceeway to source parts for this build, and the only tubeset he has that is 9/6/9 road OS is seamed Dedacciai. For a number of reasons, I'm not wild about seamed tubing -- unless todays seamed bicycle tubing is significantly different from the seamed tubing of 20+ years ago.

    However, there are lighter gage (8/5/8) heat treated road OS tubesets that would also work, but I just want to make sure that I won't be building a noodle. Is a good heat-treated 8/5/8 road OS tubeset too light for a 240 pounder? I'm a spinner, not a masher, and my competitive days are far behind me.

    Any advice would be appreciated.

    Thanks,

    Pete
    --~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--
    Ruckelshaus Randonneur Ruckelshaus Path Bomber
    Flickr Photostream
    FrameBuilderSource.com Framebuilder Database

  2. #2
    Old fart JohnDThompson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Appleton WI
    My Bikes
    Several, mostly not name brands.
    Posts
    12,501
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I would stay with the 9/6/9 Dedacciai. And yes, today's seamed tubing is much nicer than that of 20 or more years ago.

  3. #3
    Senior Member mudboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Collegeville, PA
    My Bikes
    Ruckelshaus Randonneur, Specialized Allez (early 90's, steel), Ruckelshaus Path Bomber currently being built
    Posts
    1,353
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
    I would stay with the 9/6/9 Dedacciai. And yes, today's seamed tubing is much nicer than that of 20 or more years ago.
    My main concern is when it comes to crimping the chainstays. I'm concerned about the tube failing at the seam when it's crimped.
    --~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--
    Ruckelshaus Randonneur Ruckelshaus Path Bomber
    Flickr Photostream
    FrameBuilderSource.com Framebuilder Database

  4. #4
    Randomhead
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    12,501
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    then get ROR? i don't think you have to worry about that too much, past experiences notwithstanding

  5. #5
    Old fart JohnDThompson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Appleton WI
    My Bikes
    Several, mostly not name brands.
    Posts
    12,501
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by mudboy View Post
    My main concern is when it comes to crimping the chainstays. I'm concerned about the tube failing at the seam when it's crimped.
    Modern seamed tubing is drawn over mandrels like seamless tubing, and this obliterates the weld seam quite effectively.

  6. #6
    Tell it as it is Silverbraze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    in a cave
    My Bikes
    ones that I ride
    Posts
    70
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by mudboy View Post
    I'm about to embark on my second frame, a 650b wheeled "path bomber" - a bike primarily designed for the packed gravel paths in my area, but also at home running to the store and riding around the neighborhood with my kids.

    My initial thought is to use 9/6/9 road OS tubing with a lugset (one of Dazzas) built for a sloping top tube design. I built my first frame from Columbus SPX, so similar butting, but standard diameter. However, I'm using Ceeway to source parts for this build, and the only tubeset he has that is 9/6/9 road OS is seamed Dedacciai. For a number of reasons, I'm not wild about seamed tubing -- unless todays seamed bicycle tubing is significantly different from the seamed tubing of 20+ years ago.

    However, there are lighter gage (8/5/8) heat treated road OS tubesets that would also work, but I just want to make sure that I won't be building a noodle. Is a good heat-treated 8/5/8 road OS tubeset too light for a 240 pounder? I'm a spinner, not a masher, and my competitive days are far behind me.

    Any advice would be appreciated.

    Thanks,

    Pete
    How about using XL tubes (called double over size in the USA)
    HT 36
    DT 34.9
    TT 31.7
    ST 31.7
    Use .8/.5/.8 tubes and you get a very strong and stiffer frame than a OS .9/.6/.9 tubed frame.
    The tensile or yield strength has no effect on the rigidity, that is determined only by the material dimensions.
    Up the diameter is my call.
    Use 30 x 16 CS, .8 but .9 would be better
    You may need single bend CS pending your tyre choice
    and do not skimp on seat stay diameter, as they have a lot to do with the back end of the bike, maybe 18mm or even 19mm ones are cool on big bikes or the big fellas.
    It is your tyres that do the work with shock absorbtion with big fellas.................................................................... you don't want lots of movement in the stays, or this means breakages one day
    Forks, plenty of light and heavy steerers in 28.6 (TrueTemper 28.6 steerer is lighter than the standard Columbus 25.4 steerer)
    but I would use the Columbus 28.6 steerer and a wide crown (they are available) and 1.1 mm thick fork blades. (True Temper)

    cheers Dazza
    Attached Images Attached Images
    it's steel
    it's lugs
    let the others get on with the madness
    www.llewellynbikes.com
    www.framebuilders.org

  7. #7
    Senior Member mudboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Collegeville, PA
    My Bikes
    Ruckelshaus Randonneur, Specialized Allez (early 90's, steel), Ruckelshaus Path Bomber currently being built
    Posts
    1,353
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thanks Dazza,

    I'm using your road OS lugs for the sloping top tube; ceeway carries 'em. I'll be using the Pacenti P-B-P crown.

    Double OS sounds interesting, but I'm a fan of threaded heaset and quill stems, so I need a 31.8 head tube/25.4 steerer. I'm planning on using stout stays and blades.

    Thanks

    Pete
    --~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--
    Ruckelshaus Randonneur Ruckelshaus Path Bomber
    Flickr Photostream
    FrameBuilderSource.com Framebuilder Database

  8. #8
    Tell it as it is Silverbraze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    in a cave
    My Bikes
    ones that I ride
    Posts
    70
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Cool
    Have fun
    Quote Originally Posted by mudboy View Post
    Thanks Dazza,

    I'm using your road OS lugs for the sloping top tube; ceeway carries 'em. I'll be using the Pacenti P-B-P crown.

    Double OS sounds interesting, but I'm a fan of threaded heaset and quill stems, so I need a 31.8 head tube/25.4 steerer. I'm planning on using stout stays and blades.

    Thanks

    Pete
    it's steel
    it's lugs
    let the others get on with the madness
    www.llewellynbikes.com
    www.framebuilders.org

  9. #9
    Senior Member mudboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Collegeville, PA
    My Bikes
    Ruckelshaus Randonneur, Specialized Allez (early 90's, steel), Ruckelshaus Path Bomber currently being built
    Posts
    1,353
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hey, Dazza, the lugs I ordered (the L5 on Ceeway's site, I believe they are the "Singer" lugs) have a raised line on the points. I've seen enough old French bikes to know that those raised lines are supposed to be there, but do you recommend any specific finishing for them, or should I leave them as-is?

    Thanks

    Pete
    --~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--
    Ruckelshaus Randonneur Ruckelshaus Path Bomber
    Flickr Photostream
    FrameBuilderSource.com Framebuilder Database

  10. #10
    Randomhead
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    12,501
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    the raised line has the combined benefit of making the casting more robust and can help you avoid overheating the lug tip. You should remove it. You don't want the lug to be too stiff out at the point. Look at a lot of Dazza's bikes, the points on the lugs are almost totally gone.

  11. #11
    Tell it as it is Silverbraze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    in a cave
    My Bikes
    ones that I ride
    Posts
    70
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by mudboy View Post
    Hey, Dazza, the lugs I ordered (the L5 on Ceeway's site, I believe they are the "Singer" lugs) have a raised line on the points. I've seen enough old French bikes to know that those raised lines are supposed to be there, but do you recommend any specific finishing for them, or should I leave them as-is?

    Thanks

    Pete
    The story of the raised line is all about casting production, nothing else.
    In 2005 I visited LongShen Taiwan where my lugs and Richard's and 95% of the worlds frame castings are made.
    It was during this visit that I discussed the raised ridge on lug points that I had seen before on another brand of lugs. They grabbed the idea, purely for helping the flow of metal during the pour fill the fine tip of the lug, thus reducing the failure rate during the pour. They thought it a great idea and I am all for helping them out, they have got to make living as well.
    The ridge on the lugs and some left over gate is left on the seat binder boss on the seat lug because the builder will do a better job of filing them off than a factory worker who grinds 15,000 of them each day.

    One needs to be careful filing/cleaning the shoreline at the tip as the raised ridge can over hang the final flow of the shoreline. I remove all before brazing.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    it's steel
    it's lugs
    let the others get on with the madness
    www.llewellynbikes.com
    www.framebuilders.org

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •