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Framebuilders Thinking about a custom frame? Lugged vs Fillet Brazed. Different Frame materials? Newvex or Pacenti Lugs? why get a custom Road, Mountain, or Track Frame? Got a question about framebuilding? Lets discuss framebuilding at it's finest.

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Old 10-01-10, 08:06 PM   #1
xizangstan
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Copying a vintage gt xizang in titanium

Are there design copyrights? Or would it be feasible to copy my 1995 GT Xizang (a titanium mountain bike) in another titanium clone? Only improvement I could think of might be lengthening the wheelbase a tad, and adding lugs on the chainstays for disc brakes, as well as the standards for V-brakes. Maybe lugs for a rear rack. Result: Mountain bike, commuter bike, touring bike hybrid.

Would that be feasible? If so, how much would something like that cost?
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Old 10-01-10, 09:26 PM   #2
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There aren't any copyrights on frame designs, though there could be since it has been recently introduced on boat hulls. In particular, once you alter the design you would essentially be creating a different bike.
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Old 10-02-10, 07:03 AM   #3
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I suppose it's a lame idea I had, wanting to make a new GT Xizang, but with a couple refinements, such as the disc brake weld-ons, tiny bit longer wheelbase and rear rack lugs. I also realize the original GT is no longer with us and the new GT no longer makes titanium mountain bikes. HOWEVER, there's the issue of the familiar "triple triangle" that seems to be a sort of GT trademark in design.

I just love my Xizang so much that I would like to have another, but with the 'imporvements' - if there could be such a thing!
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Old 10-02-10, 09:44 AM   #4
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That "triple triangle" predated GT by at least 50yrs, so I think you're safe.
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Old 10-02-10, 10:16 AM   #5
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even if you copied the decals they aren't going to go after you for your personal bike.
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Old 10-02-10, 10:23 PM   #6
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Why not? I think it's a great idea. You would have a newer frame, you could even get it custom double-butted to lighten things up. There's a fixed rider that had a custom frame built overseas in China. I wish I had the link, he put up some nice pics on flickr. Came out real cheap. I think it was either LSL titanium or some place called BIAM? It wasn't XACD. You gotta bargain hard with these people. He got them down to like $700. Do a search on Google. Good luck!
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Old 10-06-10, 08:32 PM   #7
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I realize the Chinese have more than a little experience at building bicycles. I guess they've only built a few hundred billion over the years. It's just that I'm uncertain about their skill with titanium. And if a weld breaks, how do you get warranty work done?

I know there are some good custom titanium bicycle frame shops here in the States, like Black Sheep Bicycles in Ft. Collins, Colorado. They built a custom titanium rear rack for me, and I'm still amazed at their perfect workmanship.
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Old 10-07-10, 02:53 AM   #8
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You aren't going to get warantee work done, but it shouldn't be necesarry. Welding is difficult to do, but bad welding isn't any faster that good welding. If this is their business and you get some referals or good online buzz, it shouldn't be a problem. The harder thing is good alignment etc... Harder to check in advance. Most customers won't be able to tell.
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Old 10-08-10, 08:31 AM   #9
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Is copying a known and liked frame, and making personal adjustments to it, the normal way people design a custom frame? And who here knows a competent titanium bicycle frame builder that they can recommend?
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Old 10-16-10, 09:02 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xizangstan View Post
Is copying a known and liked frame, and making personal adjustments to it, the normal way people design a custom frame? And who here knows a competent titanium bicycle frame builder that they can recommend?

If you know what you want I'm sure you can have it built for a cost. Bill Holland in San Diego area is an excellent Titanium craftsman and custom fits each one of his bikes. He doesn't advertise because he already gets more business than he can keep up with. I see a number of his bikes on every weekend group ride I take in the area. Everything I've seen is built for the road but I'm certain he could build a mtn bike if he chose to (especially if you just want a hard tail frame). Here is his contact information I pulled from an old thread in case I ever had the money to have him build me something.
Bill's e-mail is bike3@cox.net or his phone number is 619-469-1772.
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Old 10-17-10, 06:37 PM   #11
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Thanks, CMC. I'll get in touch with Bill and let you know.
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Old 10-18-10, 02:24 AM   #12
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If you get a frame made in China I'll hunt you down and kill you, assuming it doesn't kill you first! There is no warranty with the Chinese made frames, and they have no idea when it comes to design. You also have absolutely no idea of the quality, how well they've backpurged, how many cups of tea the welded had before he had to weld those 150 frames before lunchtime etc etc..

To do a Xizang replica should be easy. Afterall, it's just a Titanium bike with the seatstays attached to the top tube - no monumental challenge.

I'd suspect anyone could do it for you without an upcharge over a 'regular' frame, or if so, small enough to be insignificant. Somewhere in the vicinity of USD2000-2500 as a rough ballpark.
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Old 10-19-10, 07:37 PM   #13
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Bill only does road bikes. Okay... Thylacine, you're talking some common sense. And you won't have to worry about going to the trouble of tracking me down. I'm not into Chinese stuff. That's why I bought a brand new, made in the USA, genuine GT Xizang titanium bike back in 1995. And I'm not much dumber these days! I'll stick to handmade in the USA quality, thank you very much.

The only thing is, building a Xizang look-alike, but with a longer wheelbase (for a guy who's going on 20 years older now), with lugs for both disc and V-brakes and maybe for racks and fenders (as in touring bike use as an option).
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Old 10-25-10, 02:05 AM   #14
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Shouldn't be a problem.

If you ever decide to go ahead, please consider us!
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Old 10-25-10, 10:43 AM   #15
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"The only thing is, building a Xizang look-alike, but with a longer wheelbase (for a guy who's going on 20 years older now), with lugs for both disc and V-brakes and maybe for racks and fenders (as in touring bike use as an option)."

Don't know this bike, but if you are a little older etc... Could you just go with steel? Save money, trade the mystical properties of steel for the mystical properties of Ti. Also modern steel, isn't your granddad's steel any more... OK, maybe it is... You would still be getting your own design etc...
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