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Framebuilders Thinking about a custom frame? Lugged vs Fillet Brazed. Different Frame materials? Newvex or Pacenti Lugs? why get a custom Road, Mountain, or Track Frame? Got a question about framebuilding? Lets discuss framebuilding at it's finest.

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Old 10-31-10, 06:52 AM   #1
long john
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Brazing rod

is any one using Harris Alloy 170 is a copper/zinc/nickel alloy?
and how do you like it for lugged construction?
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Old 11-03-10, 09:39 PM   #2
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hi all how bout more info on product here it be
Silicon - Max 3.5%
Iron - Max 1.5%
Copper - 46-50%
Manganese - Max 1.5%
Zinc - Rem%
Tin - Max 3%
Silver - 5.8-6%
1690°F (921°C) 1715°F (935°C) AWS A5.8 RBCuZn-D
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Old 11-03-10, 10:15 PM   #3
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Thats welding rod, not brazing rod. Generally you want to stick with the Harris StaySilv products, either 45% or 56% silver. Good flow for low temp brazing. harris makes corresponding fluxes to make it simple.
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Old 11-04-10, 08:33 AM   #4
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I have Gasflux from Henry James and the LFB from Cycle Design. I think most people use those. I suspect that anything Harris sells is pretty good, but there is a big difference in usability between the different bronzes. Then again, brass is cheap, you could tell us how it works. I have some no-name brass from the welding shop, it works ok, but it's not as nice as the first two I listed.



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Thats welding rod, not brazing rod. Generally you want to stick with the Harris StaySilv products, either 45% or 56% silver. Good flow for low temp brazing. harris makes corresponding fluxes to make it simple.
Bronze brazing is commonly called welding in the trade.
Silver is not the only thing you can braze with. The vast majority of lugged bikes made throughout history had almost exactly zero silver content.

Last edited by unterhausen; 11-04-10 at 08:38 AM.
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Old 11-20-10, 09:35 AM   #5
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...
Bronze brazing is commonly called welding in the trade.
Silver is not the only thing you can braze with. The vast majority of lugged bikes made throughout history had almost exactly zero silver content.
I'm going to start practicing brazing this weekend and wondered what rod I should get. I read a lot of people suggest using silver (45 or 56%) but I also know, as mentioned above that silver wasn't always used. For practice and my first lugged frame, should I get silver or could I get away with a cheaper alloy with either no or very little silver content? I know that the melting point is higher and penetration will not be as good as silver but will it suffice?

For reference I'll be using a oxy/propane torch.
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Old 11-20-10, 01:45 PM   #6
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I'm going to start practicing brazing this weekend and wondered what rod I should get. I read a lot of people suggest using silver (45 or 56%) but I also know, as mentioned above that silver wasn't always used. For practice and my first lugged frame, should I get silver or could I get away with a cheaper alloy with either no or very little silver content? I know that the melting point is higher and penetration will not be as good as silver but will it suffice?

For reference I'll be using a oxy/propane torch.
Oxy-propane should be hot enough for either. Brass is cheaper and more tolerant of sloppy clearances; silver is expensive, the flux fumes are acrid, and it requires tighter clearances, but is easier to control.
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Old 11-20-10, 05:45 PM   #7
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Okay next question...(sorry for the partial thread hijack)

Will any brass work or is there a specific alloy or brand I should be after??
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Old 11-20-10, 10:19 PM   #8
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Okay next question...(sorry for the partial thread hijack)

Will any brass work or is there a specific alloy or brand I should be after??
I just use generic low fuming brass rod. Get a couple diameters: 1/16" for lugs, 3/32" for filling large voids like stay ends.

For silver you want cadmium-free rod (unless you have a respirator or a death wish); I like Harris "Safety-Silv" 56% silver rod.
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Old 11-22-10, 02:46 AM   #9
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I just use generic low fuming brass rod. Get a couple diameters: 1/16" for lugs, 3/32" for filling large voids like stay ends.
TI
For silver you want cadmium-free rod (unless you have a respirator or a death wish); I like Harris "Safety-Silv" 56% silver rod.
Is the safety silv just as strong as regular brass for brazing, fillet in particular? And is the home depot stuff I saw in another thread just as good, anyone know if its online only?
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Old 11-22-10, 04:51 AM   #10
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Silver is very strong, fillets can be made smaller with it, though that doesn't appear to be popular at the moment. It is plenty strong in lugs since there is considerable surface area there. It is used where clearances are tight (not always a big deal, but a spec you have to hit, with stuff like gunsights the clearances needs to be very tight); heat needs to be kept down; or on stainless.
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Old 11-22-10, 03:02 PM   #11
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I ask cause im a big guy and am looking to build a cx bike or any bike for me. In case I cant find a lugged bb that fits my needs I will have to braze it. That and the seat stays. Though not sure how good at brazing you need to be to attach seat stays so they dont break. Yea looking for something strong. From what I understand brass lets you have a bit more space in your joints.
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