pin type frame building
#1
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pin type frame building
hello everyone, is their somebody or a school that teaches old pin type frame building?
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Last edited by JohnDThompson; 11-23-11 at 01:23 PM.
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that frame is connected to something. what im really looking for is the art of hanging a pinned frame then torching it.
Last edited by roashru; 11-23-11 at 01:48 PM.
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John, have you ever pinned a fork?
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you can get nails that don't have galvanizing. Using galvanized would be a really bad idea.
I went through Richard Sachs' photo galleries, it appears that he only pins the steerers on his forks. I also would swear I've seen an Anvil fork jig with his name on it, but it's not in evidence in his pictures.
I went through Richard Sachs' photo galleries, it appears that he only pins the steerers on his forks. I also would swear I've seen an Anvil fork jig with his name on it, but it's not in evidence in his pictures.
#10
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I've seen photos of his in Velocipede Salon with pins in other joints but I can't say for sure which ones without looking. Go to Friday Night Lights on Velocipede Salon. Some should pop up without too much looking. For the OP, go to Cycle Design Group's site and look for the information about their pin kit. You might find more information of the kind you are looking for there.
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Busdriver wins the prize. Freddie Parr (https://www.cycledesignusa.com/) is kind of the king of frame pinning. I've used various kinds of nails quite a bit, but his pinning kit works better for me. I also note the site is now linking to a frame building course in Arizona. Pricey, but ten days of one-on-one with a top builder is sure to get you a head start...
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I've always thought of Richard Sachs as the king of pinning, but one man's hero is another man's also-ran.
I've used the kind of nails that Cycle Design sells for something, I think concrete work (wikipedia says I'm right, "cut nails" are used to attach boards to masonry). There was a recent discussion on pinning on the framebuilders email list. I think you need a google account to see it, but check this link
If that doesn't work, go here and search for 'pinning'
The bottom line is that there are some variations in technique. If you want the gory details, Cycle Design will sell you a kit with instructions.
I have never pinned anything, I tack braze.
I've used the kind of nails that Cycle Design sells for something, I think concrete work (wikipedia says I'm right, "cut nails" are used to attach boards to masonry). There was a recent discussion on pinning on the framebuilders email list. I think you need a google account to see it, but check this link
If that doesn't work, go here and search for 'pinning'
The bottom line is that there are some variations in technique. If you want the gory details, Cycle Design will sell you a kit with instructions.
I have never pinned anything, I tack braze.
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Zincless. Thanks.
Since asking, I took a wander through Googleland and found a reference to Llewellen pinning blades into crowns. Sounds like an occasional thing, but he doesn`t comment on what conditions other than for non-stainless crowns.
https://www.framebuilderscollective.o...and-drop-outs&
Since asking, I took a wander through Googleland and found a reference to Llewellen pinning blades into crowns. Sounds like an occasional thing, but he doesn`t comment on what conditions other than for non-stainless crowns.
https://www.framebuilderscollective.o...and-drop-outs&
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has anyone tried small concrete nails? picture is from old cycle design web page.
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you can get nails that don't have galvanizing. Using galvanized would be a really bad idea.
I went through Richard Sachs' photo galleries, it appears that he only pins the steerers on his forks. I also would swear I've seen an Anvil fork jig with his name on it, but it's not in evidence in his pictures.
I went through Richard Sachs' photo galleries, it appears that he only pins the steerers on his forks. I also would swear I've seen an Anvil fork jig with his name on it, but it's not in evidence in his pictures.
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Hopefully my Anvil fork jig is in the mail.
were you the person that started the recent thread on pinning on the framebuilder's list?
#18
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ps i use a #51 drill bit and common finishing nails that i buy by weight, and then taper/burnish the ends so that when i drive them in hard, they set up in the hole and hold a joint to my satisfaction. also - the fork fixture is there in my flickr sets, about 8 pages back.
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FWIW, Antonio Mondonico pinned. I don't recall seeing one in my fork, but I have seen his pins in all the BB joints. They're machined pins, I think; no nailheads or nailpoints.
I had a mid-60s Cicli Rossignoli that had a nail pin in the fork crown.
I had a mid-60s Cicli Rossignoli that had a nail pin in the fork crown.
#21
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The older frames that have pins probably have them because they were brazed in a hearth, with a huge air-gas flame. They prevent the tubes from flopping around and sliding off, as far as I understand.
I'd love to give pins a try. But it seems you need an accurate jig to match the holes in the lug and tube, while the joint is in the proper alignment?
I'd love to give pins a try. But it seems you need an accurate jig to match the holes in the lug and tube, while the joint is in the proper alignment?
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See post #19. There's no magic and old school hearths to using pins these days. Look at Richard's flickr site and it's very clear. Pins work great if you're doing lugs.
Craig
Craig
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The older frames that have pins probably have them because they were brazed in a hearth, with a huge air-gas flame. They prevent the tubes from flopping around and sliding off, as far as I understand.
I'd love to give pins a try. But it seems you need an accurate jig to match the holes in the lug and tube, while the joint is in the proper alignment?
I'd love to give pins a try. But it seems you need an accurate jig to match the holes in the lug and tube, while the joint is in the proper alignment?
#24
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Yeah I was referring to older frames with pins. I have a Legnano with pins, I'm pretty sure it was hearth-brazed.
By the way I always wondered why those hearths were used in the first place. The OA process was well developed by 1915. Tradition from before that perhaps.
Looking at the Flickr it seems the lugs are pre-drilled, then the tubes drilled in the fixture? Without it the chatter from the drill might disturb the mitre & alignment? One day I'll try and see, surely it can be done without a jig.
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You can build a frame without a "fixture" but you need to do a lot of math and have a real understanding of what your objectives are. I build these frames in my shop and make all the pieces myself. There is almost nothing available for commercial frame building that would work on something like this. The basis of the building system is simply nice square pieces with holes in them. I have built frames in fixtures made of high density particle board with stacks of washers for creating. You should swing by my shop at some point. I am in Vermont.
I can't teach you to build with pins but I can give you an understanding of the process that one might use to hold the parts at correct relations using junk from home depot or a junk yard.
IMG_3377 by frankthewelder, on Flickr
I can't teach you to build with pins but I can give you an understanding of the process that one might use to hold the parts at correct relations using junk from home depot or a junk yard.
IMG_3377 by frankthewelder, on Flickr