Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: 1 1/8" Lugs?

  1. #1
    Senior Member VT Biker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Denver, CO
    My Bikes
    Cannondale R700 (2005)
    Posts
    1,962
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    1 1/8" Lugs?

    So -

    I am looking into getting a custom track frame, and would prefer a modern update of the classic lugged bike. I want something that is going to be fairly light, but still have the overall steel frame feel and ride. This would mean (I know - some like Kirk thinks this is blasphemy) using a 1 1/8" head tube with ENVE carbon fork with the lugged bike, and oversized tubes. I am not looking for a track frame for riding with the hipster crowd, but an honest to goodness traditional track frame to race at the local velodromes here in Colorado.

    However - it seems that almost all lugged bikes I have seen still adhere to the 1" head tube diameter.

    So my question is:

    A) Do they make lugs for 1 1/8" head tub diameters?
    B) Do they make lugs for aero shaped tube sets? lugged, aero steel bike with oversized tubes is kind of what I envision, but the aero tubes are not necessary for this bike


    Any other information on this would be helpful, as I want to get a decent idea as to what is possible as I start down this path.

    Thanks,
    Brad

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    5,117
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Someone will be along... In the meantime. They do, they make them for stuff like MTBs. If you get really wild with angles and tubings you are into a custom lug world, or those things that look like lugs but kinda aren't bi.. somethingorother. Also if you are big and strong, you may want to carefully calibrate how light you make a frame like that.

    The modern update of a classic lugged frame is either tig welded or brazed, which is where you will end up if you do custom lugs also. I am not sure why it would look cool to have deep section aero tubing in a lug. That would sorta indicate a lack of understanding of how stuff works rather than something else. It would be like I-phoning on one of those wooden crank phones with the earpiece that looks like a bell. When you go back you have to choose your icons, and how they are used. I think a bond villain could still have one of those cool desk phones from the sixties, you can still buy those. But one of those early cell phones with the cord to a thing the size of a lunchbox? Doubts. Anyway, follow your vision, and we will all be impressed when you pull it off.

  3. #3
    Senior Member VT Biker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Denver, CO
    My Bikes
    Cannondale R700 (2005)
    Posts
    1,962
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Peterpan - I guess I was thinking in terms of aero tubing more akin to the tubing you see on Yamaguchi bikes, not akin to the aluminum tubing you see on Tiermeyer's frames.

    My main emphasis on the design is the 1 1/8" headset, because of the limited nature of the 1" head tubes when it comes to forks, as well as threadless stems.

    I essentially want a modern lugged bike with an emphasis on performance, versus a bike designed and built more as a show bike or a fixie for riding on the street.

  4. #4
    Senior Member mudboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Collegeville, PA
    My Bikes
    Ruckelshaus Randonneur, Specialized Allez (early 90's, steel), Ruckelshaus Path Bomber currently being built
    Posts
    1,353
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yes, there are lugs for OS head tubes. Not hard to find at all.

    I do not know of any lugsets for "aero" tubes; most aero frames I have seen were fillet brazed or TIG'd. However, if you're looking for performance from a stiffness perspective, you'll want to avoid squashed aero tubes.
    --~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--
    Ruckelshaus Randonneur Ruckelshaus Path Bomber
    Flickr Photostream
    FrameBuilderSource.com Framebuilder Database

  5. #5
    Randomhead
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    12,501
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yes, there are lugs for oversize and double oversize tubes with 1 1/8" steerers. Look at Nova, the ones you want are 36mm. I have to say I'm not convinced that a carbon fork makes all that much sense on a track bike, weight has never really been that much of a concern.


    There are no lugs for aero shaped tubing, it doesn't really make sense if you think about it. Fillet brazing or tig is the way to go with that.

  6. #6
    Framebuilder
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    476
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    1. Yes, there are 4 or 5 lugsets out there that use the 1.125" steerer and will work for a road/track bike. Primo example: http://www.llewellynbikes.com/galler...0/aaa.jpg.html
    2. No, aero lugsets haven't been made for quite some time. Peterpan has a good point about mixing lugs/aero tubes on a modern bike.

  7. #7
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    5,117
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yeah, your real needs are easily met!

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Columbus Ohio
    My Bikes
    Too many to list
    Posts
    161
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    pursuit stanridge speed by stanridgespeed bicycles, on Flickr

    fillet brazed columbus/nova aero tubing.

  9. #9
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    5,117
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    That thing goes so fast the rear wheel caught up with the seat tube!

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Bozeman MT
    My Bikes
    Kirk
    Posts
    178
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by VT Biker View Post
    So -

    I am looking into getting a custom track frame, and would prefer a modern update of the classic lugged bike. I want something that is going to be fairly light, but still have the overall steel frame feel and ride. This would mean (I know - some like Kirk thinks this is blasphemy) using a 1 1/8" head tube with ENVE carbon fork with the lugged bike, and oversized tubes. I am not looking for a track frame for riding with the hipster crowd, but an honest to goodness traditional track frame to race at the local velodromes here in Colorado.

    However - it seems that almost all lugged bikes I have seen still adhere to the 1" head tube diameter.

    So my question is:

    A) Do they make lugs for 1 1/8" head tub diameters?
    B) Do they make lugs for aero shaped tube sets? lugged, aero steel bike with oversized tubes is kind of what I envision, but the aero tubes are not necessary for this bike


    Any other information on this would be helpful, as I want to get a decent idea as to what is possible as I start down this path.

    Thanks,
    Brad
    Hey,

    I don't necessarily think a carbon fork is the best choice but I don't think it's a bad choice. Whatever you makes you happy seems fine to me FWIW.

    There are some very nice oversized lugs out there - my favorites being from Darrell Llewellyn. Google him and check them out. Good stuff.

    I do not know of any aero lugsets - that doesn't mean they aren't out there but I've never come across them. I'd look on Ceeway and see what Peter has. At the same time I'd be hesitant to use aero tubes for a multi use track bike. I think most would find it to be lacking in enough torsional stiffness to feel good climbing the banking. big round tubes seem the be the right way to go here IMO.

    Have fun,

    dave

  11. #11
    Randomhead
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    12,501
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Nova carries some of the Llewellyn lugs as does Ceeway.

  12. #12
    Senior Member VT Biker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Denver, CO
    My Bikes
    Cannondale R700 (2005)
    Posts
    1,962
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Kirk View Post
    Hey,

    I don't necessarily think a carbon fork is the best choice but I don't think it's a bad choice. Whatever you makes you happy seems fine to me FWIW.

    There are some very nice oversized lugs out there - my favorites being from Darrell Llewellyn. Google him and check them out. Good stuff.

    I do not know of any aero lugsets - that doesn't mean they aren't out there but I've never come across them. I'd look on Ceeway and see what Peter has. At the same time I'd be hesitant to use aero tubes for a multi use track bike. I think most would find it to be lacking in enough torsional stiffness to feel good climbing the banking. big round tubes seem the be the right way to go here IMO.

    Have fun,

    dave
    So what is the deal with all of the individuals riding around on Aero Yamaguchi's and especially the Tiermeyer bikes? A ton of those at the Boulder Velodrome.

  13. #13
    Senior Member VT Biker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Denver, CO
    My Bikes
    Cannondale R700 (2005)
    Posts
    1,962
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by stanridgespeed View Post

    pursuit stanridge speed by stanridgespeed bicycles, on Flickr

    fillet brazed columbus/nova aero tubing.
    Cannot wait to see what the finished product looks like.

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Bozeman MT
    My Bikes
    Kirk
    Posts
    178
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by VT Biker View Post
    So what is the deal with all of the individuals riding around on Aero Yamaguchi's and especially the Tiermeyer bikes? A ton of those at the Boulder Velodrome.
    That's a good question. I assumed you were looking for opinions so I gave you mine.

    I would ask the guys that ride them what they think or try one yourself. If you like it, go for it.

    Dave

  15. #15
    Randomhead
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    12,501
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by VT Biker View Post
    So what is the deal with all of the individuals riding around on Aero Yamaguchi's and especially the Tiermeyer bikes? A ton of those at the Boulder Velodrome.
    one thing that has only barely changed over the last 35 years I've been watching cycling is that people will do things that don't necessarily make much sense, and they will often justify them passionately. It seems to me that the one thing that has remained unchanged over that period is the desire for most of the top track cyclists for stiff frames and robust equipment. Meanwhile, many track riders use bikes that don't meet that description, often successfully.

  16. #16
    Senior Member VT Biker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Denver, CO
    My Bikes
    Cannondale R700 (2005)
    Posts
    1,962
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Kirk View Post
    That's a good question. I assumed you were looking for opinions so I gave you mine.

    I would ask the guys that ride them what they think or try one yourself. If you like it, go for it.

    Dave
    So if you were to draw out a track frame to someone who was going to need it as a multi-use frame, can you provide you opinion as to the tube set (TT, Columbus, Dedaccia etc...), size of tubes, lugged vs. brazed etc..?

    Just curious what you would do to someone who basically walked in blind with only the requirement that it fit, and that it can be used for multiple events.

    Thanks in advance.

    VT Biker.

  17. #17
    Senior Member VT Biker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Denver, CO
    My Bikes
    Cannondale R700 (2005)
    Posts
    1,962
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
    one thing that has only barely changed over the last 35 years I've been watching cycling is that people will do things that don't necessarily make much sense, and they will often justify them passionately. It seems to me that the one thing that has remained unchanged over that period is the desire for most of the top track cyclists for stiff frames and robust equipment. Meanwhile, many track riders use bikes that don't meet that description, often successfully.
    So which group is doing stuff that does not make much sense? The Top track cyclists or the ones who do not use the stiff and robust equipment? I cannot tell which group you are critiquing here.

  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Bozeman MT
    My Bikes
    Kirk
    Posts
    178
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by VT Biker View Post
    So if you were to draw out a track frame to someone who was going to need it as a multi-use frame, can you provide you opinion as to the tube set (TT, Columbus, Dedaccia etc...), size of tubes, lugged vs. brazed etc..?

    Just curious what you would do to someone who basically walked in blind with only the requirement that it fit, and that it can be used for multiple events.

    Thanks in advance.

    VT Biker.
    If the bike will be used in sprint events (as opposed to the pursuit) then I want it to be pretty darn stiff torsionally and have beefy c-stays to help put the power down. The way I go about this is to pile on the diameter - how big depends on the size and weight of the rider. If you want the bike to be torsionally stiff I feel round tubes are best. You lose a very small amount of performance due to air drag (very very very small) but the bike will go where it's pointed very well and allow the rider to put every watt of power they can muster into the bike. How the pipes are hooked together won't matter much. There's not real difference in stiffness or strength between well executed TIG, fillet or lugged frames.

    I would also want the fork to be very stiff laterally. Using round steel track blades and a heavy walled steerer will get the job done. Some carbon forks will be great and others not so much.

    I hope that helps.

    Dave

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Columbus Ohio
    My Bikes
    Too many to list
    Posts
    161
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    @VT I posted a more complete photo here.. probably not appropriate for me to photo spam this thread.. also my build was purely pulled from my brain and desire to feel how a imagined set of parts will work in harmony. I didn't build it for a strict discipline. Just my vision of what I've always wanted to see. A very very masculine dead sexy purpose built machine for power transfer and going fast around an oval.

    It's my first pursuit. Any elders please chime in with comments and ways to improve the design. The Steel BB30 was a pain as the fillets warped it enough to require machining.

    http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...1#post12078799

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •