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Old 01-28-11, 02:55 PM   #1
zbikema
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removable dropouts?

Hi. I am trying to start a nonprofit bicycle shop in my community, and joined to ask questions about that ... but my first real thread comes before the shop is started.

The other day, a friend asked me to help them find a bicycle with removable dropouts, viz: a bike that they can quickly convert from a fixed noncoaster (EDIT: with trackend dropouts for wheel adjustment) to a bike with a functioning derailer. I have never thought about this, so I did some research and found pictures from a person who is making a bicycle like this; the below picture is from the web site of their bike shop which is based in Oregon and makes custom bicycles. The picture is attached.



Are bicycles like this usually expensive if bought? Would it be cheaper to build one, since I maybe have the right knowledge? Is there more or different stress on the frame (EDIT: from having these and not just trackend dropouts with a derailer hole)?... since (EDIT:, if I frankensteined a frame,) I would, most likely, attach the dropouts similarly to how the dropouts on the bicycle in the picture are attached.

Any thoughts about this which I failed to mention are welcomed. Thanks.

Last edited by zbikema; 01-29-11 at 07:27 PM. Reason: *clarification
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Old 01-28-11, 04:24 PM   #2
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building frames is not a good way to save money.

Paragon sliding dropouts are another option, you can replace the slider portion. They are not cheap though, the tab style goes for over $100, and the Wright style starts at over $200
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Old 01-28-11, 04:45 PM   #3
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The other day, a friend asked me to help them find a bicycle with removable dropouts, viz: a bike that they can quickly convert from a fixed coaster to a bike with a functioning derailer.
Any frame with horizontal dropouts and a deraileur hanger will do this, I don't see the gain in changing dropouts?
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Old 01-28-11, 05:42 PM   #4
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Velognome: oops ... sorry.
EDIT: *a fixed noncoaster to a
That's what I mean; due to the stress from braking with the pedals.

Unterhausen: did you know what I had intended to type?... is your comment still relevant?
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Old 01-28-11, 05:45 PM   #5
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I agree with that, fixed dropouts weren't even standard 30 years ago. Another very simple option is to get any old frame with a hanger and put a chain tensioner on it. That would allow you to run fixed, deraileur or IGF with the same junk frame.

http://surlybikes.com/parts/singleator/

http://bike.shimano.com/publish/cont.../0/alfine.html

Or something like this:

http://www.jensonusa.com/store/produ...+Dropouts.aspx
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Old 01-28-11, 06:02 PM   #6
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EDIT: info is n /a

Okay, fixed the original post.

Unterhausen: which do you think would be better: the ones you mentioned, the ones below?... or the kind from the picture in my original post?

Last edited by zbikema; 01-29-11 at 07:27 PM. Reason: oops
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Old 01-28-11, 06:20 PM   #7
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EDIT: info is n / a
EDIT: "irrelevant"

Peterpan1: does the singleeater make it so you would brake with the pedals? Or, is your comment irreverent since I meant to type noncoaster?

Last edited by zbikema; 01-29-11 at 07:22 PM. Reason: oops
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Old 01-28-11, 08:51 PM   #8
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Three things
1. you can't use a tensioner like a singleator on a fixed gear....though Peterpan can be quite "irreverant"
2. braking w/the pedals doesn't stress the dropouts in any significant way.
3. http://www.speedhoundbikes.com/sds/
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Old 01-28-11, 09:52 PM   #9
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I've been running a S/A s3x (fixed ) on forged Horizontal dropouts with a deraileur hanger, never had a problem. I wouldn't rn it with wingnuts but the current bolts hold even under alot of heavy breaking. I'm 230lbs and I haven't been able to move the hub. The hanger remains so I can quickly switch to a 6 speed rear
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Old 01-29-11, 02:06 AM   #10
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Well you coouuld, Live Wire, with brakes. I don't want to limit the Dude's options. I think you guys should let me take it from here - when it comes to running with a non-profit, there's no stopping me!
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Old 01-29-11, 02:23 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zbikema View Post
Okay, fixed the original post.

Unterhausen: which do you think would be better: the ones you mentioned, the ones below?... or the kind from the picture in my original post?

None of the above. Chain is at least as awkward as the other problems here, so something like the speedhound would help with that. Coincidentally something like the bike in this thread with horizontal Surly-like drops would be cheaper, and faster to switch, no messing with screw on drops, or captured chains.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...-City-Commuter
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Old 01-29-11, 05:50 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by peterpan1 View Post
well you coouuld, live wire, with brakes. I don't want to limit the dude's options. I think you guys should let me take it from here - when it comes to running with a non-profit, there's no stopping me!
lol...
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Old 01-29-11, 08:37 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Peterpan1 View Post
Well you coouuld, Live Wire, with brakes. I don't want to limit the Dude's options. I think you guys should let me take it from here - when it comes to running with a non-profit, there's no stopping me!
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Old 01-29-11, 10:16 AM   #14
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I have a set of rear-facing horizontal drops with a derailleur hanger. Every time I think about how to build the bike, I get brain lock. I'm trying to think of why I would want a derailleur on a fixed gear bike and keep coming up blank. Seems to me that front facing horizontal drops work well enough for fixed gear and they work much better for derailleur systems. Seems like n+1 is a much better system.
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Old 01-29-11, 12:35 PM   #15
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This isn't for the shop; just a friend. So, every thing is fair game. My friend is starting from scratch, doesn't have a bike; I wanted to know what would be the cheapest option as well as other options.

Peterpan: my apologies, haha: "irrelevant".
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Old 01-29-11, 01:19 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Velognome View Post
Any frame with horizontal dropouts and a deraileur hanger will do this, I don't see the gain in changing dropouts?
+1 this. ^^^^
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Old 01-29-11, 01:29 PM   #17
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EDIT: My friend wants a fully functional trackend, fixed bike as well as a fully functional bike with derailer.

----------
ORIGINAL:The other bike my friend had before it was stolen was just a trick bike, but he wants to start commuting now too, so I thought I'd entertain the idea of having one bicycle which could be used for both, since I had never heard of that; I don't have as much knowledge regarding trick bicycling culture, but I am under the impression that he doesn't feel comfortable on the road when he is braking with pedals, he can't go that fast with one gear, etc. I am under the impression he mainly just wants it for road riding, multigeared, and tricking, braking with the pedals style. But I think I might be misunderstanding some thing from the responses here. I have some more questions for you guys but first let me ask this, I guess, so I make sure I understand: why is it standard for fixed gear bicycles to have horizontal dropouts > > and not ^ ^ vertical ones?

Last edited by zbikema; 01-29-11 at 07:16 PM. Reason: *TRACK ENDS ... not "horizontal dropouts"
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Old 01-29-11, 05:34 PM   #18
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OK, so this is what you want? From a bike I did last spring:

Kind of the best of both worlds except it's a bit of a pain to remove the wheel when running it geared. But then you have a built in bottle opener so you win it all back in style points!
You can get them from Paragon Machine Works.
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Old 01-29-11, 06:31 PM   #19
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I talked with my friend again, and he cleared some thing up for me. Apparently what I have always called "horizontal dropouts" are actually labeled as trackends, or trackend dropouts. I apologize. I wasn't understanding the posts you all were posting because I was thinking of some thing entirely different.

So, Live Wire: yes, that is what my friend was thinking, I guess. A bike that has trackend dropouts, so he can move the wheel for different kinds of tricking and landing but then take off that wheel and put on a different wheel and a derailer and be ready to commute. Is that what I'm seeing in this picture?

Sorry, again, for the confusion.

Last edited by zbikema; 01-29-11 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 01-29-11, 07:19 PM   #20
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Coming at this from a building it standpoint:

Would it be better to frankenstein together dropouts like in the picture from my original post, or would it be better; both every cost, and structural integrity considered, to just mold the derailer holder on, like the one in your picture? Which is better, completely removable or just built in and transformable like that? Or would that be personal preference?

Last edited by zbikema; 01-29-11 at 07:44 PM.
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Old 01-29-11, 07:30 PM   #21
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Would that kind of thing be better to frankenstein together, or would it be better; both every cost, and structural integrity considered, to just buy one?
Well, if you already have a bike with track drops, just weld/braze a der hanger on it...that would be your cheapest option.
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Old 01-30-11, 09:58 AM   #22
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+1.

Going back to my original post, you will notice you can buy those track ends with a derailleur hanger from surly, easily. The average first client type dude is almost certain to be pouring over a Surly catalog.

There isn't anything wrong with the drops in your original post. And they have a cool factor that might help close a sale. The reasons not to use them include:

1) expense, which can be a positive

2) complexity, you have to keep and not loose two sets of ends, and your drops are attached by screws, which is also ok, but now maybe we are talking locktite. All this assumes the dude who did it got all the tolerances right, particularly the screw ones. and he may have.

3) time. It will take longer to switch those over. And you will have your chain caught in the rear end, and need to break it or use link. Though these are not the only ends with these issues.

4) Difficulty of install. If you are a newbie to all this you will have the following challenges:

a) what looks a like a stainless to non stainless joint, minor complication or cost factor
b) If you blow the heat thing you may distort these babies so that they don't work that well with all the precision parts.
c) worry factor over wrecking expensive parts
d) Breezer type hood which isn't a go with all four main systems, and their skill sets.


Of course this is all good or bad depending on what you are after.
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Old 02-01-11, 05:40 AM   #23
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Won't these do thye same thing? http://www.cycle-frames.com/bicycle-...lug-style.html
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Old 02-05-11, 01:08 PM   #24
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British made winter training bikes combined fixed gears and mudguards,
Basically a track dropout with a threaded hole to bolt on the mudguard strut,
adding a derailleur hanger is just a step away. ... but ...

multispeed IG hubs dont need no hanger, still offer a bunch of Gear Ratios.
11 from Shimamo , this year..

Last edited by fietsbob; 02-05-11 at 09:23 PM.
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