Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Framebuilders Thinking about a custom frame? Lugged vs Fillet Brazed. Different Frame materials? Newvex or Pacenti Lugs? why get a custom Road, Mountain, or Track Frame? Got a question about framebuilding? Lets discuss framebuilding at it's finest.

User Tag List

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-25-11, 03:34 AM   #1
Cycling_Guy
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2011
Bikes:
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Beware of the Desperado

I employed Jalon Hawk (real name Laurence B. Gust) of Desperado Cycles in Deerbrook Wisconsin to create a custom bicycle for me. 22 months and over $14,500 later (yes, I'm an idiot) all I've received are excuses, demands for more money and verbal lashings for being unwilling to pay more for the work of a "master builder".

Be afraid. Be very afraid.
Cycling_Guy is offline  
Old 05-25-11, 04:10 AM   #2
Italuminium
Cisalpinist
 
Italuminium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Holland
Bikes: blue ones.
Posts: 5,557
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
wow, that's bad. Good luck in getting your money back.
Italuminium is offline  
Old 05-25-11, 04:59 AM   #3
ultraman6970
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 7,860
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
For that amount you could have been able to get anything else in the market, in a matter of fact you could have figure it out the situation after the second G man. Good luck.
ultraman6970 is offline  
Old 05-25-11, 05:18 AM   #4
mudboy
Senior Member
 
mudboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Collegeville, PA
Bikes: Ruckelshaus Randonneur, Specialized Allez (early 90's, steel), Ruckelshaus Path Bomber currently being built
Posts: 1,354
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
$14,500? What the hell kind of frame/bike were you supposed to be getting?
mudboy is offline  
Old 05-25-11, 05:47 AM   #5
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Bikes:
Posts: 14,592
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
you've certainly posted this everywhere you could, it's easier to find all 5 copies of your post than it is to find their website. This page says it takes a $1000 deposit, what went wrong?
unterhausen is offline  
Old 05-25-11, 07:25 AM   #6
mudboy
Senior Member
 
mudboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Collegeville, PA
Bikes: Ruckelshaus Randonneur, Specialized Allez (early 90's, steel), Ruckelshaus Path Bomber currently being built
Posts: 1,354
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yeah, still trying to wrap my head around the $14,500 thing.
mudboy is offline  
Old 05-25-11, 08:01 AM   #7
mconlonx 
Nobody
 
mconlonx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 7,141
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 468 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudboy View Post
$14,500? What the hell kind of frame/bike were you supposed to be getting?
Frame made out of unicorn horns, lashed together with dragon gut.
__________________
I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.
mconlonx is online now  
Old 05-25-11, 08:24 AM   #8
Cycling_Guy
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2011
Bikes:
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Again, I'm an idiot. But, the cash actually went to pay for 1 complete bike (including parts), a second frame and one existing frame that was going to be reconditioned. Nice outlay but the reality is had he been honest we would have done 4x that. I would have fed him personally for 6 projects. Then, others would have joined the party. He would have eaten very well for years to come and would have been financed to create beautiful and unique works. Instead, I was taken advantage of. Obviously, I'm most upset at myself. But, I don't want anyone else to suffer. I got the hard lesson - hopefully others will wince and go elsewhere. Oh, just to be beyond clear, I have received absolutely nothing. I have even paid for the boxing and shipping costs of 2 of the projects. The man sank to the point where he defrauded me for common postage.

Last edited by Cycling_Guy; 05-25-11 at 08:32 AM.
Cycling_Guy is offline  
Old 05-25-11, 09:53 PM   #9
Alan Edwards
Senior Member
 
Alan Edwards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Lancaster,CA the desert north of Los Angeles
Bikes: 84' Ciocc, 79' Shogun 1000, 76' KHS Gran Sport, 96' Schwinn Super Sport,
Posts: 702
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Can we wait for a reply from Desperado Cycles, as a contractor I have worked for many people who screwed me before a job, during a job, and after a job. I would realy like to reserve judgment with out all the facts. Lastly I don't think this forum is for complaints.
Alan Edwards is offline  
Old 05-25-11, 10:31 PM   #10
Dave Kirk 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bozeman MT
Bikes: Kirk
Posts: 200
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have a sincere question - why did you pay in full for stuff you didn't have in hand? It's highly unusual.

I sometimes have folks that want to pay me in full right up front and I always talk them out of it - I don't want the liability. Did you two have a special arrangement?

dave
Dave Kirk is offline  
Old 05-25-11, 11:11 PM   #11
Live Wire 
Framebuilder
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 530
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Kirk View Post
. Did you two have a special arrangement?

dave
And cycling guy said,
"I would have fed him personally....Then, others would have joined the party. He would have eaten very well for years to come"

Sounds a little too special if you ask me
Live Wire is offline  
Old 05-26-11, 02:21 AM   #12
Cycling_Guy
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2011
Bikes:
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Live Wire:

Ha ha. Cute.

Alan Edwards:

I understand your take and think you are the right person to ask this - being a contractor yourself. I'm going to cut and past a few quotes from Mr. Gust below. I want you to take off points for all manner of assumed bias on my part. Assume I'm skewing, assume I'm taking things out of context, etc.. I'm not but assume it, anyway. Then, ask 1 question - under what circumstances would you the contractor find it appropriate to say the following to a customer that has paid you in full per your quotations for all materials and labor to complete a job:

When asked for timelines to completion. By the way, "Alfred" is the name of the frame I paid to have built

"I have used up the money for a good chunk of the parts for this project to pay for bills and needless to say the same goes for Alfred, and that leaves me working on Alfred without being able to pay for bills."

When asked about starting to work again after a 6 month long break

"No Christmas bonus, no incentive to continue the work."

Dave Kirk:

Fair question. It all go to the mentality I chose. you see, I wasn't doing business. I was making personal dreams come true. Once I decided who I was doing this with I just went along. I never once question cost or timing of funding. Decisions were made, costs were quoted and I paid. Yes, I know - stupid. But, that was how it happened.

So, I have a mess to clean up and that is going to take some time. Then, I'm going to no doubt lick my wounds for awhile but then it will be back to what I want. But, with some hard learned adjustments:

1. Small is OK but the name I choose next time will be well established. Period.

2. It will not be a US builder. Now, I know that's a terrible thing to say and I feel like crap. But, once bitten...
Cycling_Guy is offline  
Old 05-26-11, 06:24 AM   #13
mudboy
Senior Member
 
mudboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Collegeville, PA
Bikes: Ruckelshaus Randonneur, Specialized Allez (early 90's, steel), Ruckelshaus Path Bomber currently being built
Posts: 1,354
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Wow. I've got to say that I haven't had a whole lot of sympathy all along, I don't agree with your approach, and I get the sense that this is just one of many marginal decisions made by you. You also seem to be quite impressed with yourself and giving the impression that you're trying to tell us how impressed we should be with you. And all along, knowing that people are what they are, I ignored it. And then you wrote this:

Quote:
It will not be a US builder. Now, I know that's a terrible thing to say and I feel like crap. But, once bitten... It will not be a US builder. Now, I know that's a terrible thing to say and I feel like crap. But, once bitten...
Personally, if I were a small custom builder with a good name (I'm not, I've just built a couple of frames and probably won't ever build for anyone but myself, friends, and family), I'd avoid you like the plague.

Good day.

Last edited by unterhausen; 05-26-11 at 06:49 AM. Reason: spelling
mudboy is offline  
Old 05-26-11, 06:51 AM   #14
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Bikes:
Posts: 14,592
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
I am curious how someone that isn't in the U.S. got hooked up with a builder like this. It's not like it was easy to find them doing a online search
unterhausen is offline  
Old 05-26-11, 06:58 AM   #15
mudboy
Senior Member
 
mudboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Collegeville, PA
Bikes: Ruckelshaus Randonneur, Specialized Allez (early 90's, steel), Ruckelshaus Path Bomber currently being built
Posts: 1,354
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
I am curious how someone that isn't in the U.S. got hooked up with a builder like this. It's not like it was easy to find them doing a online search
I didn't see any indication that the OP wasn't in the US?
mudboy is offline  
Old 05-26-11, 07:32 AM   #16
Cycling_Guy
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2011
Bikes:
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
mudboy,

Not at all sure where you are coming from. Regardless..... I am not in the US. I found Desperado Cycles through a combination of asking around and the Internet. I do agree with you about marginal decisions. That's actually kind.

Anyway, I am going to leave it as is. I never meant to convince anyone of anything. I meant to inform. I also meant to make myself feel better. Instead of feeling better I just feel small and vindictive. Add those to being an idiot.

Hopefully, at least information was passed on.
Cycling_Guy is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:18 AM.