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Framebuilders Thinking about a custom frame? Lugged vs Fillet Brazed. Different Frame materials? Newvex or Pacenti Lugs? why get a custom Road, Mountain, or Track Frame? Got a question about framebuilding? Lets discuss framebuilding at it's finest.

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Old 06-14-11, 04:00 PM   #1
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Finally bit the bullet

I've been singing the same old song as a lot of people IMHO...one day I'm going to build my own frame...yada yada. Well to make a long story short....instead of just sitting on the toilet I finally shat. lol. I know your first frame is usually the worst and was going to just use the basic Nova Chromo OS tubing kit but went with something decent. I went with the Dedaacciai Zero Replica tube set. Then Long Chen long point lugs and Breezer style dropouts. I'll be taking photos along the way and have my trusty Paternek manual and some videos and the help of one fellow John Thompson just a few minutes down the road literally. Wish me luck!


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Old 06-14-11, 09:57 PM   #2
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Yay!

Go for it!
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Old 06-14-11, 10:19 PM   #3
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good luck
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Old 06-14-11, 11:04 PM   #4
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Dang...I used the fit calculator on the Competitive Cyclist's website which was extremely helpful with videos on how to and what to measure exactly. Normally I ride a 52cm frame and it told me a seat tube of 46.6-47.1cm and top tube of 54.1-54.5. I tried the fit calculator on Strawberry's website and it gave me almost the same seat tube but the top tube was 47.2. Wow that seem a bit on the shorter side. All of the same info put in each fit calculator but why so much of a difference? This was for the Competitive fit on their chart and not the Eddy or French fit.

The Competitive's measurements seem more correct so time to start measuring and cutting my top and seat tubes tomorrow! Then start cleaning up the lugs/bb. It's midnight and want to run out into the garage and get to work but my neighbors still like me.
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Old 06-15-11, 03:51 AM   #5
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Nice, keep us posted. It's good that you have skill close by to tap into.
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Old 06-16-11, 05:25 PM   #6
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Nice, keep us posted. It's good that you have skill close by to tap into.
Since the measurements for the top tube doesn't seem kind of iffy I'll hold off on cutting everything. So in the mean time I was filing and doing some work on the lugs. Everything I touch now gets a touch of drillium if I able to. lol. So I felt why not with my first frame. Now I'm not going overboard and having look like swiss cheese but tastefully done. I was going to have the a series of holes drilled out around the headtube section of the head tube lugs but felt it might of been too much. I was just trying to take of the edge on all of the corners except the sections that will get reamed at the end. I had all the lugs have two hole on the outer section of main triangle and then one single hole in the inside. One reason was one of the lugs I wasn't able to get my counterbore bit all the way in and had to center one of the holes and didn't leave enough room for a second. So I just made it matching for all of the rest of the lugs.

Here's where I am so far as I started this morning. Only thing I have left to do is the bottom bracket.










Let me know if there's anything else I need to do or not to do. I'm just doing what I learned from watching some youtube videos and just things that I've seen online so this is totally on a whim.

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Old 06-16-11, 06:46 PM   #7
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Old 06-16-11, 09:49 PM   #8
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Lugs with square edges look much better, and are easier to cleanup if your brazing isn't spot on. Also, those counterbored holes will make the paint look too thick when everything is finished.
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Old 06-16-11, 10:24 PM   #9
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Well they say your first frame should usually be thrown away as it's the worst. There's aways the next frame do something different on and leave something things the way they are. You don't learn or know if you don't ask.
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Old 06-17-11, 09:48 AM   #10
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Don't rush it- your first frame need not be a tosser. If you haven't brazed the tubes together spend as much time as you want cleaning up those lugs. It's much easier to do it before they are all stuck together.

If you haven't already, start brazing some scrap tubing together in lap joints. You will want to have some practice before you move straight to the bike stuff if for no other reasons then the time invested.

Good luck!
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Old 06-17-11, 12:44 PM   #11
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I have to order my flux as no place locally carries what I suggested to use(gasflux type B paste). Exactly what am I cleaning up on the lugs? I tried taking down all of the casting marks and the hard edges. What does a finished cleaned up lug look like to something not touched yet? I like the smooth edge compared to something smooth as my Raleigh Competition has really hard lines on the Capella lugs and it just looks like they just grabbed a set and tossed some tubes on it. It's a Carlton built frame also. Not saying that Carlton was super top notch they kicked out some pretty good stuff.
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Old 06-17-11, 01:39 PM   #12
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I think "most" prefer square/crisp edges on the lugs and any holes or other embellishments.
You intend to try a different aesthetic approach. No harm no foul.
I tend to agree with the previous posters comment on the counterbored holes, if nothing else I personally would clean up the ragged edge inside them so the shoreline is crisp. Depending on your heat control you may also run into issues cooking things where they are that thinned out.
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Old 06-17-11, 02:02 PM   #13
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Squaring the shorelines befo brazing will make for keeping those edges crisp while brazing and help in cleaning them up should you need to file later. If you prefer the British rounded thinning (which can look awesome) consider thinning/ rounding the edges as a last cosmetic step after the brazing clean up.

Here is an example from a Cooper that was in for a recent repair:


Contrast that to a lug with square edges:


And squared edges and thinning:


These are largely aesthetic touches, but having a square edge to run a file next to will help prevent undercutting both the tube and lug if you try to clean up along a rounded shoulder.

Overflowing the lug will also possibly fill in the countersink, but that is better then under filling in an attempt to save the shore lines.

I recommend keeping the cosmetic lug prep to a minimum on number one- you want a good slip fit on the inside and a shoreline prepped to you standard:
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Old 06-19-11, 06:15 PM   #14
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It's clarification like this that helps out understanding what I'm actually supposed to be filing or doing to the lugs. Thanks a lot fellas.
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Old 06-20-11, 12:59 PM   #15
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Old 06-20-11, 03:06 PM   #16
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As an aspiring first time frame builder this thread is full of great advice and really nice pictorial documentation. Please Keep up the Updates!! This is great!!
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Old 06-20-11, 05:37 PM   #17
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you should try your hand at it instead of just reading about it. Nova has been having some good specials recently
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Old 06-20-11, 09:10 PM   #18
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I wish I would of ordered my kit like a month or two earlier cause they had some complete frame kits for a really cheap...tubes, cast lugs, braze ons for under 200 if I recall.
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Old 06-20-11, 09:11 PM   #19
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Sweet! This should be fun to watch. I've always thought building my own bike would be fun, but I've got a long way to go in the "skills" department.
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Old 06-21-11, 10:27 AM   #20
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you should try your hand at it instead of just reading about it. Nova has been having some good specials recently
I am in the process of doing so! Gonna order Patarek's Book and probably the DVD's, and I'm trying to decide which torch to get.
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Old 06-21-11, 12:09 PM   #21
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Did you download the free version of Patarek or Talbots book?
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Old 06-21-11, 12:41 PM   #22
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I found this page regarding Paterek's book http://www.iinet.com/~tpaterek/tpmanual.htm and read the excerpts from the chapters but if you've got links to the early version or the Talbots one, I'd love to check em out.

**edit**

I found the correct link for the old Paterek Manual http://www.timpaterek.com/paterek.pdf

Gonna take your advice and order That Zero Replica tubeset while its on sale over at Nova.
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Old 06-21-11, 08:53 PM   #23
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Here's the Talbot manual. These a bit difficult to find and pricey when you do.
http://bhovey.com/Masi/Scans/Talbot/index.htm#1
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Old 06-22-11, 06:50 AM   #24
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Your BB miters are more than a little rough.

I agree with what others have said about the shoreline and countersinks. Then again, I'm a keep it simple kind of guy.

Other than that, having been there recently, there's no substitute for just jumping in and getting your first build started.

Pete
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Old 06-22-11, 11:15 AM   #25
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This will be my just jumping in first build. I'll be attending Doug Fattic's three week course next month so there'll be difference...I hope on my next build and the rest to follow. lol.

On a side note folks who used just a MAPP air setup. What rod did or are you using if your still running MAPP/air? There was a bit of confusion and was told get to a low fuming bronze rod thinking I was using MAPP with Oxygen. Whoops!

I was able to grab the second to last spot that he had available for this summer let alone this year. Whoo hoo!
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