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Framebuilders Thinking about a custom frame? Lugged vs Fillet Brazed. Different Frame materials? Newvex or Pacenti Lugs? why get a custom Road, Mountain, or Track Frame? Got a question about framebuilding? Lets discuss framebuilding at it's finest.

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Old 03-08-12, 09:54 AM   #1
corynardin
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Bernzomatic Sufficient For Brazing a Cable Stop?

I would like to dip my toe in the water and I figure adding a few braze ons to my steel frame might be a good start. I don't expect to braze a lugged frame but could I feasibly braze some cable stops with a $60 Bernzomatic torch from the hardware store? This is the one I had in mind www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&locStoreNum=4647&productId=202185043&storeId=10051

I would probably use silver, but would like to know if that would be my only option.
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Old 03-08-12, 11:36 AM   #2
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that would be fine because it has oxygen. People have built complete frames with just MAPP, not recommended though.
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Old 03-08-12, 02:38 PM   #3
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Plenty hot for brazing small parts but you will run through the cylinders really, really fast; gets expensive to play with. If you ever intend to try building a full frame your $ would much better be spent upfront on a rig with larger refillable cylinders.
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Old 03-08-12, 04:14 PM   #4
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I've never tried it but from what I've heard GrayJay is right, you'll smoke through the cylinders and it will get pricey.
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Old 03-08-12, 04:35 PM   #5
corynardin
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Quote:
unterhausen
that would be fine because it has oxygen. People have built complete frames with just MAPP, not recommended though.
Thanks. That's what I was hoping but wanted to check first.

Quote:
GrayJay
Plenty hot for brazing small parts but you will run through the cylinders really, really fast; gets expensive to play with. If you ever intend to try building a full frame your $ would much better be spent upfront on a rig with larger refillable cylinders.
I appreciate your wise words, however I can't see myself ever building more than one or two frames in my life (if any at all). I want try things out with minimal investment so that if I never do get around to building that bike frame I won't feel bad about buying a bunch of stuff that is just filling up my garage.

I can justify to myself having a small torch because it just seems like a handy thing to have around and it is small.

One other question I just thought of. Do I need a welding mask? Any recommendations?
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Old 03-08-12, 05:42 PM   #6
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I have used one to remove cable stop, which is sort of reverse brazing....plenty of heat.

does use a lot of Oxy tanks..... we are talkikng minutes not tens of minutes.

it is a handy thing and good for what it is
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Old 03-08-12, 06:05 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by corynardin View Post
Do I need a welding mask? Any recommendations?
You dont need a mask, those are just needed for electric welding techniques. You just need lightly tinted welding glasses/goggles to protect your eyes from the UV spectrum. Heavy-duty welding googles will likely be too dark to let you see what you are doing, cannot properly judge when the metal/filler are at right temp.
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Old 04-06-12, 12:41 PM   #8
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Not sure if this is too late to help here, I realize this is a month old thread, but a plain old MAPP torch (without the oxygen) would work for silver brazing. I brazed my entire lugged frame on one store bought MAPP torch. You won't burn through those too fast. I have no experience with the oxygen version.
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Old 04-06-12, 01:41 PM   #9
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I removed and installed new guides on my Ciocc frame using MAPP/Air and didn't use that much. Marc Chimonas built up a few bikes with just Mapp/Air and even has a how to book on Amazon. I'm not vouching for the dude but just saying he was able to do full frames with the stuff. Though he also said you should really use oxygen also for the thicker sections like the bottom bracket but still got it done. He pulled down his videos on Youtube since he really got flamed on by some of the bigger builders but last time I looked he had them back up.
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Old 04-06-12, 01:57 PM   #10
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I assume he has the comments turned off, because those videos are comedy gold. "oh, that's good enough"... for his dad.
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Old 04-06-12, 10:51 PM   #11
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You can braze tiny parts with propane air no problem using just a bernz. Racks are easy with MAPP. You can also melt a bike frame into a puddle with a relatively small propane air burner. Some classic builders used propane air to harth braze. There was a guy on here in the early days that made rather nice bikes with just MAPP. It is perfectly doable. I have used MAPP, but I didn't like it. The results hold up, but they are not nice to work with. I tended to get a lot of flux burn, except in the odd case where the part size was just perfect. But that is probably about where the OP is, if he is using silver.
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