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Framebuilders Thinking about a custom frame? Lugged vs Fillet Brazed. Different Frame materials? Newvex or Pacenti Lugs? why get a custom Road, Mountain, or Track Frame? Got a question about framebuilding? Lets discuss framebuilding at it's finest.

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Old 08-18-12, 07:51 AM   #1
mudboy
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source of Campy forged dropouts

I'm looking for a set of forged/machined face Campy horizontal road dropouts, front and rear, prefer 1010b but the longs will work, no eyelets preferred but I can work around that, too. If you have a stash and are willing to sell me a set, let me know. pruckelshaus at gmail dot com
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Old 08-18-12, 10:58 AM   #2
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Have you tried Ben's in Milwaukee?

http://www.benscycle.net/index.php?m...6ab6ec35c333b8
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Old 08-18-12, 01:58 PM   #3
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The last set of Campy 1010Bs i got came from Richard Sachs. Andy.
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Old 08-18-12, 04:17 PM   #4
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OK, good to know Andy. I was going to get a couple of other things from him, and his forged dropouts were my second choice anyway.
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Old 08-18-12, 06:31 PM   #5
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The only difference is the name stamped into them. At least with Richard's that is.
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Old 08-19-12, 07:23 AM   #6
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My very slight issue with the RS dropouts is a philosophical/ethical one. Much like Cinelli, RS is both a man and a brand who also makes frame parts. I would never want my (undoubtedly inferior) work to be ever mistaken for the real deal, just as there are people who post "Is this a real Cinelli" in the C&V forums because a builder used a Cinelli-stamped shell or crown. If I do go with RS dropouts, I would probably fill the lettering with silver and file it smooth.

Weird, I know, but it is what it is, and I am what I am.

Pete
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Old 08-19-12, 08:38 AM   #7
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I agree that it just doesn't seem right to have someone else's name stamped into your frame.

I think that Nova has tecnocyclo 1010b dropouts under the Columbus brand HERE
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Old 08-19-12, 12:01 PM   #8
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I have a ton of 1010B dropouts that say Campagnolo atmo.

Send me an email.
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Old 08-19-12, 01:55 PM   #9
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I forgot you hang out here, too. Thanks.
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Old 08-19-12, 07:43 PM   #10
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My very slight issue with the RS dropouts is a philosophical/ethical one. Much like Cinelli, RS is both a man and a brand who also makes frame parts. I would never want my (undoubtedly inferior) work to be ever mistaken for the real deal, just as there are people who post "Is this a real Cinelli" in the C&V forums because a builder used a Cinelli-stamped shell or crown. If I do go with RS dropouts, I would probably fill the lettering with silver and file it smooth.

Weird, I know, but it is what it is, and I am what I am.

Pete
I see where you're coming from Pete, but I have a 180 view; it's added value. The people who confuse names on a frame part have never looked very deeply. I'm sure my design or yours will never be confused with Richards.
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Old 08-19-12, 07:53 PM   #11
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Mine, definitely not, yours is much closer to that high standard
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Old 08-20-12, 06:12 AM   #12
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Mine, definitely not, yours is much closer to that high standard
Pete - you obviously missed an era or two that includes, as one example, a good majority of the frames
being sold as handmade or custom having the Cinelli imprint in the bottom bracket shell atmo. Again, it's
only one example.
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Old 08-20-12, 06:50 AM   #13
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It is funny that we have no problem using frame parts that have the name of some faceless Italian guy on our bikes, but balk at using parts that have the name of one of the pre-eminent builders of our time on them.

However, I have to say that when Cinelli started putting their logo on everything I thought that was weird. Particularly the brake bridges.
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Old 08-20-12, 07:07 AM   #14
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Thanks, Eric - I'm not lobbying or anything similar. But I agree with you. Back in ??? all of us used parts from the same 3-4 vendors PERIOD. There was virtually no selection. There was a choice or three and that was it. Now, all of those companies have long since vaporized and we all still have but 3-4 vendors, only they (we) make contemporary shapes and sizes just as the Prugnats, Vagners, Guinticiclos, and others did when freewheels had 5 cogs atmo. There are no companies left from that era. Even the few that made it out of the 1970s eventually sourced the goods from Asia.
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Old 08-20-12, 07:57 AM   #15
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Wow. Didn't mean to start a kerfuffle.
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Old 08-20-12, 08:48 AM   #16
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Wow. Didn't mean to start a kerfuffle.
You didn't. It's a conversation atmo.
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Old 08-20-12, 06:21 PM   #17
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There are builders who try to erase all trace of origin in a part, or go to great trouble getting their own dropouts customized. I just don't buy it. With such great choices of dropouts available from good people like Richard, Dave, or Darrell, I say pick one and go for it.
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Old 08-20-12, 07:05 PM   #18
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I think my natural impulse is to avoid logos when I can. Dazza's price sheet says you can get dropouts without logos if you order a certain quantity, but apparently it's not that easy because he talked me out of it Probably a good thing, because on reflection I still associate no-name dropouts with low quality. Back when I started building, we called that a "hang-up." "Free your mind, man"
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Old 08-20-12, 07:15 PM   #19
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I think my natural impulse is to avoid logos when I can. Dazza's price sheet says you can get dropouts without logos if you order a certain quantity, but apparently it's not that easy because he talked me out of it Probably a good thing, because on reflection I still associate no-name dropouts with low quality. Back when I started building, we called that a "hang-up." "Free your mind, man"
I guaranty you'll get more tail than Sinatra with a branded dropout atmo.
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Old 08-20-12, 08:47 PM   #20
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lol
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Old 08-28-12, 12:41 PM   #21
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Excellent point. I would also like to stress that it's important we give credit where credit is due. These parts are someone's design property. Covering an imprint is being less honest about the origins and embedded design history that we are striving to create.
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Old 08-28-12, 04:40 PM   #22
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I would also like to stress that it's important we give credit where credit is due. These parts are someone's design property. Covering an imprint is being less honest about the origins and embedded design history that we are striving to create.
But AFAIK, the Sachs branded dropouts are not eRichie's design, but simply forged from the same dies that were used to make Campagnolo 1010B, Columbus, and other branded dropouts.
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Old 08-28-12, 07:54 PM   #23
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... just as there are people who post "Is this a real Cinelli" in the C&V forums because a builder used a Cinelli-stamped shell or crown. If I do go with RS dropouts, I would probably fill the lettering with silver and file it smooth.
I would mill the face like Confente and many others did. Richard did too way back. The name would be just cuttings on the shop floor. Less heat, more stylish too.

I always laugh about the Cinelli bottom bracket shell convincing so many that "it's a Cinelli, it is stamped right into the shell"

The RS stamped vintage dropouts require lots of effort to make them Italian pretty, everybody who used them way back was faced with the "same marble to sculpt" if you will.
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Old 08-31-12, 09:10 AM   #24
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On the subject of drops-
My friends early 70's Dawes has stamped steel drops, the driveside is cracked straight through where the axle touches.

we will most likely grind thru the crack and mig weld it back together and file it smooth

I was wondering is it possible and worth it to take out these drops and put in quality ones with a deraileur hanger?
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Old 08-31-12, 03:18 PM   #25
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puchfinnland- Yes it is possible to remove the old drop outs and relplace them with cast or forged ones with a der hanger. The process is filled with issues though. Finding a pair of drop outs that mimic the shape/dimensions of the old is the first step. Specificly how the chain stan and seat stay line up with the drop's tabs (don't even think about socket or plug style drops!). Assuming that the drops' tabs are long enough and about the right angle to match the old then comes where is the axle compared to the old. Some minor change of axle position is common but too much and the bike's handling will be different. You'll want to retain the traditional slotted style, no verticals.

The actual installing can go one of two ways. The best way to maintain the handling and dimensions is to do one drop at a time. Using the old one as the guide for the new. This can be done with a good builder's wheel, good drop out match up in shape and dimension so that the stays don't need much work to fit the new drops and simple set up. Remove one side drop by cutting it in half and heating one stay/drop half at a time until the drop half falls out of the stay. Repeate for the other drop half. Clean up the stay ends, fit up the new drop using the wheel to hold the drop in place (mimicing the still in place old drop). All fitting should be with out any stress or clamp induced flexing to the stays, it's REAL easy to have the stay end crack and split during brazing if the fit up is forced. Once the first side is in place repeat with the other side. If you've been a good boy the wheel is in the same place it use to be and well aligned with the rest of the frame.

The second method is to not be worried where the axle ends up (or jig up the frame to record the axle position) and remove both sides at once. Then do all the same fit up with the new drops, care taken as discribed above. With out the old side acting as a locator you will be deciding where and how well the wheel is aligned (easier with a jig that the old set up was saved by and the jig now used to hold everything in that same and straight place). This method can be faster if you know what you're doing, but if that were the case you wouldn't have posted the question...

Replacing drop outs can seem easy but get you in over your head quickly. Andy.
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