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  1. #1
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    where to put the internal cable wiring hole

    Howdy.

    I'm in the process of modifying a 1985 Trek 620 with internal cable routing, better chain hanger stud, pump studs, relocating the chainstay hanger for better fender mount, bottom bracket cable guides, spoke holders doubling as chain protector for the driver side stay, and whatever else I can think of before sending it to the painter.

    On the internal cable routing through the top tube; I have seen it on the top, on the non-driver side, and on the bottom. I'm planing on the side but is there a particular reason why the other positions would be better? I'm planning on using the type where you run cable housing through the hole, mostly because I plan on also running the generator cable to the rear light through there.

  2. #2
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    Sometimes, running the cable housing through a tunnel leads to problems with the rear brake, especially its remaining centered on the wheel. I've the tunnel provides enough friction (generally where it bends) this issue can be mitigated. But then, where is space for the electrical cable and is it at risk of having the insulation rubbed through?

    Do you plan to replace the top tube? I'd have a hard time threading a tunnel through a top tube that was already brazed to the frame, unless I put way long holes through the top tube - not something I'd be willing to do.

    Don't mean to be a damp rag, but those are my thoughts.

  3. #3
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    Nah, I'm concerned about weakening the top tube too. I'm using the diamond shaped cover plate, which I'm hoping will give it structural support. Within the constraints of that plate I'm planing on doing as long a hole as feasible.

    I'm still pondering about the electrical wire. It is either that or another hole which I don't want to do.

  4. #4
    Andrew R Stewart Andrew R Stewart's Avatar
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    I have tried to think up a cute way of saying that the holes for internal routing should go in one's head, but I'm not that swift. Why (repeat WHY) would you want internal cable routing on a touring bike. Of all bikes that might need in the field servicing a touring bike is most likely to need some. The ability to un hook cable casing, slide it along the inner and clean/lube the inner, the ability to have more cable slack when trying to find the arrangement of a bike boxing (WRT handle bar placement) are all real nice features on a bike that might see some traveling.

    Have you spent much time servicing internally routed cables? How about fixing electrical problems inside the walls of your house? I'm not trying to be a smart ass but why make the bike harder to deal with?

    I do agree with some of the other frame mods, spoke holder excepted. Until i see a spoke holder which is adjustable for length I won't dedicate a frame to one set of wheels' spokes.

    As to where to place holes in a frame, in the thickest part of the tubes that give you the routing that you like. A small washer can be brazed in place then the hole drilled, giving some reinforcement around the hole. Don't forget to deburr well the holes and find a way to plug them that's also removable or replaceable as things need service and cleaning years from now. Cable entry and exits should be based on where the casing needs to go and how to get it there with the least curves and bends.

    If you're trying to convert this bike from a touring one to something other then some of my comments aren't as valid. Still I really don't like internal anything. 40 years of fixing bikes and wanting an easy time of it have biased me. Andy.

  5. #5
    tuz
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    A full housing rear brake will be a little less responsive than stops with exposed inner cable in between. That would be my first choice for an upgrade. There is an equivalent for internal but it must be hard to retrofit. For cantilever brakes and left hand lever the best cable run would probably be front 4h30 rear 10h30 viewed from the back.

    I've used internal wire on 5 bikes and it works great. I usually braze a guide in the fork blades & DT, then go in the fender. The cable is protected inside. If anything fails its usually at the connections or at sharp bends. If your house wires were exposed you'd run a greater risk of damaging them.
    homebuilt commuter, mixte, road and track (+ Ryffranck road)
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  6. #6
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    Andrew, when you put it that way it really makes Alex Singer, Rene Herse and Toei sound like morons It is not just aesthetics (which granted to me it is appealing); the cable is protected and the clean top tube makes it easier to chuck the bike on the car bike rack and to attach all sorts of baggies without the cable getting in the way.

    Everything in life is a compromise. There is a metal guide channel you can use where the cable go into the top tube naked. This helps to take away the 'mushiness' that comes from using the long cable housing. Then again it would be a lot cleaner if the hole is a smidgen bigger to accommodate a bit of wiring cable. When I think of being able to deal with not one but two cables, this side of the compromise wins.

    Also, keep in mind this Trek already uses a long casing cable held in place by three cable channels to the top; the mushiness is already there, and pulling the casing out won't be any harder than with internal routing; I don't consider having to remove the saddle post in order to guide the cable in any harder. If the electric cable gets damaged a field repair is easy enough with a spare wire and some zip tides.

    for the spoke holder one of the tabs will have an elongated slot and will be mounted on an M5 boss. The slot will be about 1cm which gives over 2cm of adjustment by flipping the tab.

  7. #7
    Andrew R Stewart Andrew R Stewart's Avatar
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    abdon- Sorry to sound so negative WRT internal routing but I am. Yes, i think even the "greats" that use internal routing are not doing any one any favors. Just my opinion. I do agree with tuz in going to external casing stops (that are slotted) is the first choice. I'd like to see a shot of the adjustable spoke holder. Sounds like just what i was talking about. Self made or store bought? Andy.

  8. #8
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    That's cool. Some of this stuff will never be agreed upon no matter how much beer is drank while arguing the finer points. As stated the current state of the cables is pass-through for full-length casing; internal wiring this would not be a step back from there, maybe just a missed opportunity for a step forward . I really can't think of an emergency field repair where it would make any difference whether the casing is held on top or routed through a hole.

    I'm still working the details on the spoke holder/chain stay protector. The adjusting mechanism would either be a tab with a slot bolted with an M5 on a boss, or a barrel adjuster. I will need to spend more time on the drawing board. Once it is done I will post pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
    abdon- Sorry to sound so negative WRT internal routing but I am. Yes, i think even the "greats" that use internal routing are not doing any one any favors. Just my opinion. I do agree with tuz in going to external casing stops (that are slotted) is the first choice. I'd like to see a shot of the adjustable spoke holder. Sounds like just what i was talking about. Self made or store bought? Andy.

  9. #9
    Randomhead
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    I think most spoke holders rely on the adjustability of spokes, which is about a centimeter.

  10. #10
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    Would you want your spare spokes to be repeatedly smacked by the chain?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Live Wire View Post
    Would you want your spare spokes to be repeatedly smacked by the chain?
    I also hang my unloaded bike by the front tire. Some people think this through and come to the conclusion that it must be bad for the tire. It is the same thing with the spokes, who happen to be made of the hardest steel on the entire bike. If the chain could do that kind of damage to that steel, most chain stays would end up with holes.

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