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  1. #26
    Randomhead
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    kiln dried wood is more fragile/brittle, but not by much. The industrial production methods are more sure than the ones most artisans use. I have thought about improving my side bending machine, but it's not worth it for the amount of work I do.

  2. #27
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    Keep in mind that industrial bending methods may involve ammonia treatment to plasticise the wood.

  3. #28
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    That would be overkill here, it was the key to all those chairs where the wood is virtually tied in a knot, but for shallow bends there isn't that much point. The Thonet chair is one famous example. Apparently eastern parts of europe had huge beech forests, but it was not a wood that was prized for furniture production when other alternative were present. The bent designs were something novel one could prize without paying much attention to the wood involved. And they were also light, given that beech is too heavy for certain designs.



    I think that ammonia also stains some woods black. There is a story in a French finshing book, about how their stain turned out awfully, and they didn't know what to do as it had already been installed at the bank. The solution was to gas the place with ammonia, probably settled accounts with any mice, etc... they may have had on site.

    Here I am making a little beech for fenders:

    Last edited by MassiveD; 04-04-14 at 01:46 PM.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
    kiln dried wood is more fragile/brittle, but not by much. The industrial production methods are more sure than the ones most artisans use. I have thought about improving my side bending machine, but it's not worth it for the amount of work I do.
    I am probably going to go the silicon blanket route at some point, and that changes a lot of other factors as well. I use either the original fox or my commercial pipe bender. The thing about kiln drying is that it hardens, or sets the lignin, which is supposed to be relatively irreversible. I have this from Michael Fortune who wrote one of the books, and designs studio furniture from large companies. My only suspicion is that in the commercial setting, you wouldn't kiln dry the wood, then steam it, if you could avoid it. Often the first step in kiln drying is steaming the wood. Steam rapidly drives out the water, and does not cause checking. So why would on not just go strait on to bending it. Often a myth that something can't be done is just people observing how it was done. But Fortune is way more technical than that.

    I guess the other thing is that on the internet, almost nothing that one says can't be done turns out to be true, there is always someone, it seems, who has done it. That certainly applies to metalworking which is one of the few US crafts where there are multiple unions or crafts that share the same space. What these people believe is possible almost always refers back to the limitations of their own craft, and what they may have heard around the water cooler, but didn't understand. So there is almost always someone who did the opposite, and the internet is great at getting that out.
    Last edited by MassiveD; 04-04-14 at 02:02 PM.

  5. #30
    tuz
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    Little update. Using wood wasn't going to work easily so I used carbon fibre. I kinda messed up trimming the sides but it's not bad.
    IMG_20140531_074341.jpgIMG_20140531_140344.jpg
    homebuilt commuter, mixte, road and track (+ Ryffranck road)
    bla bla blog

  6. #31
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    Nice job.

    There is arguable little real benefit to making a fender out of actual carbon fiber, it isn't a load bearing part, and the material isn't all that crazy stiff in very thin sections.

    I only mention this because there is a cheat that would work nicely, and never fails to fool the eye. Concealex. Heat formable plastic like Kydex (there are many kydex vids on youtube). Even fairly sophisticated people always look at my Concealex stuff and ask me if it is carbon. People like boat builders familiar with carbon. In most instances if it were carbon, one could never get the knife out, or open the wallet, it would be far too stiff. But they are fooled from a few inches away. i didn't get it to fool anyone, I got it because the material is harder than kydex, but fooled they are. In the close-up section the Concealex is the Phillips head tension bolt assembly item. The object above with the serrations is real carbon ground in a curve, so it's pattern is not flat like the Concealex, which if curved retains the pattern of a flat element, as would a cloth layup that followed a curve.

    Last edited by MassiveD; 06-01-14 at 12:11 PM.

  7. #32
    tuz
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    That Concealex stuff looks nice. Where can you get some? I agree that using carbon is a bit overkill and expensive, but it's pretty and not too hard to use (although playing with epoxy is messy). I wasn't sure what thickness was appropriate: I used 5 layers at about 1 mm. Feels as strong as the steel Wald I used as a mould.
    homebuilt commuter, mixte, road and track (+ Ryffranck road)
    bla bla blog

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