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  1. #1
    Living 'n Dying in ¾-Time JBHoren's Avatar
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    Brazing/Dropout-Replacement in South Florida

    I thought long and hard about posting this in C&V -- after all, if any forum is about "recycling", it's that one -- but opted to go for information, rather than opinions.

    I have a 1979, Raleigh-made frame (Canada) -- nothing special... high-tensile tubing... clean, simple lugs... absolutely no corrosion, rust, dings, dents, or cracks... seat tube: 59cm (c-c), 71°-72°, head tube: 72°-73°, top tube: 58cm (c-c) and horizontal, with 45cm chainstays -- and all that's standing between me and happiness is replacing the stamped rear dropouts with forged ones (w/integral derailleur hanger) -- which I have -- and I cannot find anyone in South Florida to do the work. Other than a Miami-based custom frame builder of great renown, I have been unable to find any bicycle shop or individual offering the brazing services required. And it blows me away. South Florida... land of year-round riding... and only one individual, who only builds custom frames. Can anyone point me in the direction of someone or somewhere in the general area, where I can get this work done?

    PS: The "why" of replacing the rear dropouts is irrelevant.
    Last edited by JBHoren; 09-28-14 at 09:21 PM.

  2. #2
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    It's not South Florida, but Jonathan Greene is in Oviedo. His website is down for an upgrade, but his contact info is on his Facebook page.
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Jonat...s/318715335004

  3. #3
    Randomhead
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    If it's not worth shipping, it may well not be worth doing. Unless you find someone that's desperate for work or feels like subsidizing your dream, you probably aren't going to like the price of that operation

  4. #4
    tuz
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    Terraferma cycles?
    homebuilt commuter, mixte, road and track (+ Ryffranck road)
    bla bla blog

  5. #5
    Living 'n Dying in ¾-Time JBHoren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
    If it's not worth shipping, it may well not be worth doing. Unless you find someone that's desperate for work or feels like subsidizing your dream, you probably aren't going to like the price of that operation
    "Escape the Fantasy, Embrace the Dream" -- Benjamin Israel Robinson

    Quote Originally Posted by tuz View Post
    Terraferma cycles?
    Yes; Mike's the only one in town... whom I know of... and a non-starter.

  6. #6
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    The last time I replaced a set of dropouts the bill was $100.00, the customer was responsible to re-finish the frame (which needed it).

    The frame in question was a Miyata 1000 which is the kind of bicycle that warrants this kind of repair and I had some OEM dropouts to match the bike, the cost of these would affect the total price but for many entry level bikes, salvaging a set of dropouts would be the most cost effective.

  7. #7
    Living 'n Dying in ¾-Time JBHoren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    The last time I replaced a set of dropouts the bill was $100.00, the customer was responsible to re-finish the frame (which needed it).

    The frame in question was a Miyata 1000 which is the kind of bicycle that warrants this kind of repair and I had some OEM dropouts to match the bike, the cost of these would affect the total price but for many entry level bikes, salvaging a set of dropouts would be the most cost effective.
    I've got a pair of new Suntour dropouts... also a pair of new Gipiemme dropouts -- I wish that was the issue! For me, this frame is as worthy as that Miyata 1000 -- it fits perfectly, in all respects. I'll keep putting away something every month... perhaps in a year's time I'll be able to "enact" that dream, not just "embrace" it.

  8. #8
    Randomhead
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    plenty of really nice bikes had stamped dropouts, if the bike is otherwise perfect, learning to live with them is the best approach.

    The people that do a lot of repairs seem are cheaper at this. Bilenky, Franklin Frame, and there are others. Bikeflights.com seems to be the best way to ship a frame.

    Most pro framebuilders are perfectionists, and doing repairs just doesn't give the same satisfaction that you know everything is right. I was looking at the repair pricelist for one framebuilder who seemingly will underprice his full frame builds by piecing together the requisite repairs. That's just nuts.
    Randonneuring -- it's touring for people that aren't smart enough to stop for the night.
    It's a wonderful sport when you can make up for a lack of ability with a lack of sleep

  9. #9
    Living 'n Dying in ¾-Time JBHoren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
    plenty of really nice bikes had stamped dropouts, if the bike is otherwise perfect, learning to live with them is the best approach.
    To make a long and embarrassing story (mercifully) shorter, I took some bad advice about a year-and-a-half-ago -- if I'd only read this post back then, instead of last night, my problem (and this thread) would not exist. If...

    And, if I'd've been willing to run 35mm tires, instead of 38mm, I wouldn't have needed to replace dropouts or indent chainstays... but at the time I was 300lbs, instead of today's 210lbs, and those extra millimeters made a difference (or so it seemed, at the time).

    Thanks for the other references... I picked the wrong area to retire to.
    Last edited by JBHoren; 09-29-14 at 07:13 PM.

  10. #10
    Randomhead
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    now you should share, because I can't think of how making room for 38mm tires results in the need for new dropouts

  11. #11
    Living 'n Dying in ¾-Time JBHoren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
    now you should share, because I can't think of how making room for 38mm tires results in the need for new dropouts
    The rear dropouts are simple, stamped parts, and the drive-side dropout doesn't have an integral derailleur hanger. With the derailleur hanger in-place, it lacks the 1-2mm of tire clearance up close to the BB. So, a welder buddy of mine tack welded the hanger onto the dropout. It might be strong and safe to ride, might not; might last for years, might not. It's the difference between theory and practice... sounded like a good idea, at the time.

    Drive-Side-Dropout_Outside.jpgDrive-Side-Dropout_Inside.jpg

  12. #12
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBHoren View Post
    The rear dropouts are simple, stamped parts, and the drive-side dropout doesn't have an integral derailleur hanger. With the derailleur hanger in-place, it lacks the 1-2mm of tire clearance up close to the BB. So, a welder buddy of mine tack welded the hanger onto the dropout. It might be strong and safe to ride, might not; might last for years, might not. It's the difference between theory and practice... sounded like a good idea, at the time.
    Are you riding a Super Grand Prix by any chance ?

    I don't understand how the derailleur hangar affects the tyre clearance at the chainstay bridge.

  13. #13
    Living 'n Dying in ¾-Time JBHoren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    Are you riding a Super Grand Prix by any chance ?

    I don't understand how the derailleur hangar affects the tyre clearance at the chainstay bridge.
    The serial number (top-back of seatpost) denotes a Raleigh-made (Canada) frame, manufactured in November of 1979. According to the Raleigh catalog archive on Headbages, the only models Raleigh made which were offered in Pearl Silver paint were the Competition GS and the Grand Prix. However, the decals read "Intersport" and "Concours"; and, indeed, this bicycle was part of a run made for the (then) Canadian sporting-goods firm Intersport. All the accompanying parts match the catalog specs for the 1979 Raleigh "Grand Prix", but are not Raleigh-branded.

    The derailleur hanger has a half moon-shaped piece that fits inside and against the rear of the drive-side dropout, and the flat part is fastened to the dropout with a threaded connector. The thickness of that in-the-dropout piece was sufficient to cause a 38mm tire to rub against the chainstays, although the tire-crown-to-BBchainstay-bridge clearance is at least 2.5cm.

    Again, if I'd been willing to drop down to a 35mm tire, or had known/thought about indenting the chainstays, this might be someone else's thread, rather than mine.
    Last edited by JBHoren; 09-30-14 at 11:39 AM.

  14. #14
    Randomhead
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    thanks for the explanation, bolt-on derailleur hangars do take up a considerable amount of space

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