jade408

Bringing extra clothes is not appealing. I think we need to stop focusing on commute trips and focus in the rest. Most people live less than 3 miles from errands, and the bike ride and the drive are pretty comparable. Most people also do not care what they look like on errands. And 2/3 of our daily trips are not work trips. These are also very likely to be close by.

I found it really easy to ditch my car for errands. Most people can as well.

fietsbob

On introduction, I thought Gates belts in fully covered drive trains was what would be great..

since chains, in chaincases likely rarely get sufficient oiling..

but the showing off nature of pricy features makes hiding them in a wire and fabric skirt/trouser gard seems unlikely..

osco53

I ride single track, Myself and the bike get filthy,
I ride my Tour Easy with a chain three times as long as a Wedge bike chain,
I ride my Folding bike with Its big 52 tooth chain ring.

Never even considered chain and gear maintenance a problem or a hassle,
I never get chain lube on me. I Use modern dry lubes, never have performance problems. I go about 4 rides before I clean my MTB chain.
The Tour Easy, as needed, no idea how often..

IG Hubs are cool but for that much money I can give myself a fix of N+1

That's why I stick with chains and cassette's, that's why so many do I think..

N+1= Current number of bikes I own plus the next one ~~~~~

DropBarFan

Well cyclists have different approaches to chain maintenance from the fanatical to the more practical. I use Rock 'n Lube which can be applied generously & then excess wiped to clean/lube in one step. But a bit time consuming to apply/wipe & to me using the stuff as both clean/lube uses more than pre-cleaning chain (degreaser + hose or else scrubbing or soaking in mineral spirits). IE Rock 'n Lube etc can be rather expensive. A racer friend used to use motor oil on the chain; not the ideal lube but he kept the chain spotless (removing/scrubbing in kerosene IIRC) so it ran silky smoothly & quietly.

What ever method used, if one has a set routine the cleaning/lube is not horribly time-consuming but if all else was equal, why bother? Average rider has zero interest in getting grease under their fingernails. I used to ride 400 km/week in all weather & it wasn't fun to clean bike & chain when it was so cold the rinse water starts to freeze. & now that I only ride about 3 days/week I often will wait out rainy days, mostly just to avoid getting the chain dirty.

& don't many MTBers bust derailleurs in off-road incidents? Modern derailleurs are finicky: indexing requires properly-true dropout hanger & I'm still getting the hang of adjusting SIS since most instructions are poorly-written. Old derailleurs were easier; just set the limit screws.

IGH/belt still pricey of course; I'd love to get a Co-Motion Pangea Rohloff/Gates but at $5,500 how can one leave it locked up outside?

osco53

In my 4 years on the single tracks I think I've seen three derailleurs smashed.. I would not consider this an Issue. But I bet the numbers are higher in rocky conditions.
I ride SLX gear, that derailleur can be had for less than $75, Mine shifts perfectly..

$500 derailleurs, well I bet rocks hunt them for sport, roots and vines can destroy one that expensive just by looking at it,,,

MichaelW

IGH and belts may have a problem penetrating the domestic utility market, where cheapness is valued above goodness.
It should be cost effective for fleet operators such as bikes rentals, esp city-wide operators. Servicing a large fleet of several hundred or thousand bikes is not trivial.
Once people get a taste for oil-free riding they may see the point.
One market where oil-free is a huge advantage is commuter folders used on trains and buses.

79pmooney

But, a long horizontal dropout could be used. It is nothing stopping anyone from making a bike with a dropout that can accommodate the equivalent of an 11 tooth gear change. Say your normal "gear" in back is the equivalent (diameter-wise) to a 20t cog. A long enough dropout could handle anything between 15t and 26t. Change pulleys just like a fix gear and slid the wheel to adjust the belt tension. Yeah, there is one extra step as there does have to be actual tension, not just most of the slack taken out as for a chain, but still entirely doable.

I ride a fix gear with a dropout that accommodates that 11 tooth change easily (and on the road). And I do not mess with chain length. (Well occasionally at home when I change chainring sizes, but never on the road.)

Yes, the bike needs a chainstay/dropout that can detach or open up to change the belt. If you have a bike you want to retro fit, you could talk to TiCycles about retrofitting it. I don't know what materials they can work with but a simple phone call would answer that one. They build steel and ti belt bikes and have supplied the hardware/technology to other builders as well. (Some of the best framebuilders send their completed but unfinshed frames to TiCycles these dropouts and to have S & S couplers installed. Your frame will be in good hands.)

Ben

brianinc-ville

The cheap (and excellent, in my experience) alternative to the belt drive is the Hebie Chainglider. I can't figure out why they're not more widely available in North America. With the current favorable exchange rate, it's cheaper to get one shipped from Germany than to buy from one of the two N. American dealers (in Seattle or Toronto).

79pmooney

One fast growing potential market - young adults moving into new, high quality but very small modern condos in recently gentrified areas of US cities. A bicycle that is stylish, light, and clean should fit in very well. Costing a couple of k$$s? As an alternative to a car that they have to park; hence real monthly payments for both the car and parking it? That bike could look VERY attractive. Combine that nice one you bring upstairs with the cargo bike you keep in the communal bike stall in the parking garage (that you pay peanuts for as opposed to your car owning neighbors) and you can live a very decent and upscale life car-free.

Ben

als2775

From what I have read, rolling up a pant leg is not necessary with a belt drive. I have ridden for 2 summers now without an issue.

DropBarFan

TiCycles seems like an interesting company, I'm surprised I hadn't heard of them before. Prices seem fairly reasonable & they do it all--even Ti stems & custom handlebars, wow. In Portland OR it seems like they must have a custom frame company on every block, heh. Due to their rainy weather I imagine a lot of the Northwest cyclists have more incentive to consider belt-drive.

DropBarFan

Slight drawback over the Chainglider actually resting on the chain; some users say that it adds a small amount of noise & requires chain to be amply-lubed. OTOH chain stays clean so overall it's probably more efficient. Germany has rainy weather so the Chainglider could be a real help. In Germany & Netherlands etc folks ride for transport in all weather including sub-freezing & most don't even bother much with all the protective fancy clothing like US commuters who put on tights/gloves/hats when temperature drops to 10° C.

But to me IGH & belt-drive go together like bread & butter. Sure, now, most IGH bikes still use chains but I would hesitate to splash out $1K on a Rohloff while still having chain cleaning to do.

DropBarFan

I agree. In urban areas cars often get broken into, parking is a major hassle etc. While most folks like the comfort of a car in rainy/snowy/cold weather that's also the same conditions causing gridlock so bikes can scoot past. DC & neighboring Arlington VA now roll out the red carpet for cyclists with umpteen boulevard bike lanes etc. Yuppies can use Zipcars when necessary or trad car rental for longer weekend trips.

Cycle transport would be further boosted if local gov'ts would remove zoning requirements for apartment buildings etc to include X # of car parking spaces.

jade408

I think you are missing the mark a bit. There is a practical limit on how much people will spend. They still need to feel safe parking on the street. Cargo bike parking? Sounds really progressive. There have been lots of bike cage break-ins locally. People are a little more reluctant to use bike rooms that do not have cameras and another layer of security. Some savvy thieves are targeting the bike rooms and committing inside jobs.

There is definitely a market for attractive bikes though. Attractive and well priced.

seafood

This stuff bugs me. Then why use indexed shifters? I've been commutting on an old bike with plain jane derailleurs and friction shifters and life is just peachy. What problem is all this fanciness trying to solve?

Robert C

I have a belt drive and still find it necessary to use a leg strap on my pants. I find the cuff of my pants can still get caught by the belt as it enters the sprocket and this can tear them. The "guard" did not eliminate this and the guard is quite heavy so I removed it.

I still like the belt drive because it is significantly cleaner, quieter, and lower maintenance.

fietsbob

yea low weight priority is part of the problem , so the crank cog rings break, because weight won over durability.

brianinc-ville

I've found that after the initial fiddling to get it right (pro tip: use the narrowest chain your rings and cogs will allow), the Chainglider does not produce noticeable drag or noise.

Sure, if you're spending thousands on a Rohloff, you should definitely go for a belt drive. But for the mass market, most people would be way better served by a 3-speed Sturmey Archer or Nexus and a Chainglider. Cheap, easy, reliable.