corrado33

I work up this morning upset. I recently bought my Raleigh tokul 2 from one of the LBS. The sales-person was knowledgeable, nice, and patient. He was one of the main reasons I bought the bike from that store. I bought the tokul 2 over the tokul 1 because, I was told, that the tokul 2s suntour XCR fork was an air fork, instead of a coil fork like the Suntour XCM in the Tokul 1. Not knowing any better, I believed him.

While SOME of the XCRs can be air forks, the one on the Tokul 2 is not. I only figured that out the other day when I wanted to adjust it and couldn't find a schrader valve anywhere. I'm quite upset because the "air fork" was one of the main reasons I BOUGHT that specific bike. Trying to find out if the Tokul 2s fork was air or coil was harder than I had thought. It took a few minutes of very specific google searches to find what I wanted. Google searches I probably wouldn't have been able to do before I knew as much as I do now about mountain bikes. I only found the answer on mtbr forum post.

It especially makes me angry because I'm a light rider. I weigh 145 pounds. The spring in the XCR fork on my bike is much too stiff for a rider of my weight. The sag is only 5 mm, when it should be at least 20. I think this is contributing to a recent pain in my hands when riding. I can't do anything about it besides changing out the coils in the fork. Who knows how much that'll cost.

I just don't know what to do. I, of course, have no proof that the sales-person told me incorrectly, but I remember what I heard, especially since it was the main reason for me buying that specific bike over other brands like Giant or Rocky Mountain. I DO positively remember saying something to the effect of "Wow this Raleigh is such a good deal because no other bike in this price range has an air fork." I should have taken that as a hint... I POSITIVELY remember having a discussion with the sales person when I came back to the LBS the 2nd time (when I actually bought the bike) that other stores didn't have knowledgeable sales people because they couldn't identify which of their bikes had air forks and which had coils. I 100% remember having that conversation. He said something like "Well it's hard with new technology and even I'd have trouble if I hadn't just recently ordered these myself."

I can't return the bike. I've already ridden it many miles and have crashed it. The bike is fine, I just feel... used, and I'm not sure if there is anything I can do. Was I just naive and am I wrong? I'm not the type of person to walk back into the store and demand compensation for something like this, but I do feel I was wronged.

The worst part is... I go on group rides with the majority of the staff at that store. (Not that salesperson.) They're all great people. I don't want to alienate myself by making a big fuss about it.

RALPHFELT

I wouldnt say "Wronged". Maybe mis-communication, Should have checked the bike before taking delivery. How long have you rode it and what made you check the fork?

corrado33

I've ridden it two or three times a week ever since I bought it, a month and a half ago. (And by riding I ACTUALLY mean riding, on tough, technical, rocky trails that go up the side of mountains. This is not a commuter bike.) I checked the fork because I wanted to let some air out so it'd be softer and better accommodate my 145 pound frame.

And I DID check the bike. The fork LOOKED different from the obviously coil fork on the Tokul 1. (The XCR has rebound and preload adjustments whereas the XCM does not. I thought the rebound adjustment knob was a cap for the schrader valve. ) I didn't know any better. Am I supposed to go home and google everything the sales-person said to make sure he wasn't lying?

Shuffleman

If you feel like you were deceived than I would go to the manager or owner of the business and talk to them about it. Give them a chance to correct this and to make you happy. There are multiple things that can be done.
On a side note, what type of riding are you doing? The fork that is on that bike is for light trail use. Suntour has a great loyalty program. If you send them your receipt copy, you can buy their Raidon Air fork for $189. You can have the shop install it and then sell your fork on ebay for $30-$50. That would drop the price down to about $150. The Raidon is an awesome fork. I did this on my Giant Revel and that fork rivals the comparable Rock Shox but with the upgrade program, the price is far better.
Perhaps the shop will agree to pay for half the upgrade and do the install. You would be getting a much better fork and everybody wins.
If you ride any level of trails than this upgrade is great even without the shop assisting in the cost. My wife and son have that same fork you have on their bikes and it is awful on the trails. The link below is for the program that I mentioned. Good luck.
SR Suntour North America

corrado33

Yeah, I'm doing a heck of a lot more than "light trail" riding. Most of the other people who ride in the group rides have full suspension bikes and some even have yetis. I just wasn't prepared to make that much of an investment.

The thing is, if I spend $150 on a new fork... I should have just bought the tokul 3, which has better components all around and an air fork, for about $200 more that I paid...

obed7

you can keep frustrating yourself by thinking what you would have done back then based on what you know now...or you can deal with the reality of what is. Talk to the shop owner and see what he has to say.
Your are worried about them thinking you are being a prick for stating how you feel... I would rather be a prick than a patsy... I would rather be hated for what I am than loved for what I am not.

Wilfred Laurier

Sounds more like the salesperson made a mistake, as a 'blatant' lie like that is generally not good for anybody. Still, it must be very frustrating.

As for the pain in your hands, I think it is likely the result of something else. I ride a full rigid bike on rough singletrack (because I am too cheap to buy suspension, but some people think I am doing it because I am a purist or trying to make a point ), and I don't get pain in my hands, but my arms and shoulders get tired. Sore hands sounds more like a fit issue than a too-rigid suspension issue. That is my thought on the matter, anyway.

RALPHFELT

Again, I like to give everyone the benifit of doubt. Maybe he also thought that it was an air shock. With Social media today, people can walk into shops and already know more than the salesman. I would bring it back and explain to him the problem before getting a manager or the GM involved. Give the guy a chance to help you before you throw the man under the bus. To many people are quick to assume they were done wrong on purpose.

fietsbob

You realize it's a Minimum Wage Job. the kid was Likely winging it to answer You, something They believed true.

hueyhoolihan

to assume deception is probably pre-mature. a lack of due diligence accompanied with a bit of naivety on one party's part is a more reasonable assessment, IMO.

corrado33

I doubt that it was a minimum wage job. This wasn't one of the sales "kids," it seemed to be the manager or someone else important. (He had his own office upstairs.)

But even if he believed it was true, is it my responsibility to double check the sales-person? That seems illegal to advertise something that isn't true (even in ignorance.)

I'll talk to one of the guys I ride with (who is a bit older/experienced sales-person and not a kid.)

fietsbob

You dont know .. do you? From experience I find, to work, for long, in a bike-shop in many college towns ,
wives have the better jobs.

Tenured university professor of Mathematics was Sheldon's wife's job..

JonathanGennick 

The fork brands do not help here. I have a Recon that is an air fork, and I have a Recon that is a coil fork. Completely different products. Same name. Last I looked a couple years back there were so many variations of Reba that the name Reba by itself hardly means a thing.

Little Darwin

I would treat the issue as a mutual mistake. Whether buying a car or bike, if I am told there is a specific feature I am looking for, I make sure the feature is there before I leave the shop.

Go talk to the salesperson or their manager, and do it politely. If you go in like a dick, you might get them to cave, or you might just get treated accordingly.

Maybe they'll give you a deal on an upgraded air fork, or on buying/installing lighter springs for your existing fork. This won't be ideal for you, but it will get you to where you want to be and help to build or maintain a productive vendor/customer relationship.

Also, a sales person should know their products, but to make a mistake on the capabilities of one component is hardly in the realm of false advertising, where marketers have the ability to check and double check the specs before printing. Admittedly he should have been more sure before making the claim, or admitted he didn't know instead of making an assumption... Then you could have both looked at the fork and seen that there was no valve.

There could be a world of difference in the response depending on your attitude when you do discuss it. If you go in nice, and they play the role of dick, then maybe this isn't a shop worth maintaining a relationship with.

PepeM

I know it doesn't help at all, but yes, when buying something I think it helps to do your own homework. Most sales guys can't really recall the exact details of every bike they sell. If they are not sure they should check, but maybe he was sure it had the air forks and made a mistake.

Shuffleman

I agree that the OP should go to the manager/owner and give them the chance to make it right. I agree that the salesperson probably made a mistake or was mentally lazy for not making sure.
I do not agree that the OP is wrong in any way for not doing more homework. You go to an expert because you want their expertise and knowledge. If they do not know the answer than they should find out. Most people do not have the time to do the research on everything so they put their faith in a LBS or another expert. I am guessing that most people do not know the difference in car engines either. If the sales person told you it was engine X, you would believe him. If you found out later it was engine Z, would you say "Oh well, I should have done my homework"?
I really think that the owner of the shop will figure out how to correct the issue if you give him a chance. I find that being nice and not using power words, like lying and fraud, will usually work better. They make their money on the extras and service. The last thing they want is a situation like this causing a customer to go elsewhere with that money and that story as you will tell others. The loss of business is not worth it for them.

PepeM

I totally agree he is not wrong here. All I'm saying is that I consider it good practice to do your own research apart from consulting with the experts. In the same situation, I would also be extremely angry.

Definitely go talk to the store owner/manager. There is nothing to lose and you might be able to figure something out.

obed7

the op did not really do anything wrong...I would have looked for the valve if it was me, because I would have wanted them to show me how to adjust it if I needed to...so yes, I double check everything a salesman tells me, not because I do not trust them, I want to see everything work. The shop can not make it right if he does not go in and talk to them about it...who knows, maybe the salesman will fess up and say he told you it was an air shock. he might also say that y'all talked about air shocks, but on the other bike you looked at and you got the two confused...but you won't know until you give them the opportunity.

corrado33

I did do research. I also asked the sales-person how hydraulic brakes are adjusted as I've never had them before. We talked for probably 1-2 hours that day just about the bike and the differences between it and the tokul 1 and 3. I had never had a bike with air suspension, but I knew that there was usually a schrader valve hidden under a cap somewhere on the fork. I knew that you adjusted the air pressure to adjust the overall "hardness" of the shock. I didn't think I NEEDED to ask how to adjust it. I saw something on this fork that the other, cheaper, obviously coil spring fork didn't have, so I assumed (in conjunction with being told) that this fork was an air fork and that thing that I saw was the cap hiding the valve.

I didn't do a lot of online research, but I DID walk around to every LBS in town (all 4 of them) and rode multiple bikes at every one. I think that's more "research" than most people do when buying a bike.

bovine

That really sucks, friend, but you really should go in and at least give the LBS an opportunity to step up. You might be pleasantly surprised.

I've had my LBS call and tell me a couple days after a big purchase that they rang the sale up wrong and owed me ~$50. I've had another basically demand to charge me what they quoted ($50 less) rather than the MSRP, even though I told them I knew what the price of the bike was before I even stepped through their door. LBS know you can get stuff online for anywhere from 10%-50% the price (think groupsets). They realize that word of mouth and consistent repeat business is the lifeblood of their business. At least the good ones do.

shelbyfv

I believe you would be best served by going to the manager and saying "A mistake has been made, I didn't buy what I wanted, what options are there for getting what I want?" Lose the attitude and don't try to assess blame as it sounds like there was fault/ negligence on both sides. If lighter springs can be sourced, I wouldn't be surprised if the shop would install them for free. At your level of riding, if the shock is set up correctly, air or coil won't matter. Good luck and please post the resolution.

FBinNY 

I suggest you simply go in and explain your problem, not in combative terms, but in "is there any way we can work something out" terms. If the fork is too stiff, the shop may offer to switch the springs, or switch to elastomer springs which come in a large variety of spring strengths.

Or there may be other fixes, like a deal, or swap out to an air fork with you ponying up some dough, but not all.

In most cases things can be worked out reasonably if both sides give up their notions of right and wrong, or even fair and unfair, and shoot for something they can both live with (maybe grudgingly).

himespau 

It can't hurt to ask as long as you ask nicely.

delcrossv

That's the coolest tidbit I've read in a long time!

corrado33

Apologies if I came across as having an attitude. I never intended to go in "g*ns blazing." What I had intended on doing was pulling aside one of the guys that I ride with (who is a full time employee/sales person there) and ask what could be done.

I'm not the type of person to assign complete blame. (Although it sounds like it above.) Yes, this was partially my fault, but I believe I was misled, whether intentionally or not. (Most likely not.) I should be able to trust the sales-person when it comes to features on the bike, as they're really not that complicated. That's their job! (With that said, I've heard horror stories of car salesmen knowing next to nothing about the cars they are selling.) Talking is always better than yelling, so I will attempt to resolve this "problem" peacefully and if push comes to shove, I'll just deal with what I have.

EDIT: Apparently the "soft springs" for the XCRs are only ~$20 (for the 100 mm fork, which I don't have.) Not bad at all.

EDIT2: As for my riding, I'm not sure if I'm good or bad. I've ridden dirtbikes my whole life, and I can keep up with the majority of people on the group rides (downhill and uphill) Of course there is always the guy on the $4000 bike with many many more skills than me. Some of the trails we're riding have large rocks and 3 foot drop offs (that I gladly take with speed ) The switchbacks (downhill) are the hardest for me to deal with so far. (I ride with clipless.)