what are the barriers to get women cycling in NYC (and elsewhere)?
07-10-15, 01:51 PM
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I have thought about this problem before and I also came up with the idea that the reasoning behind female choice must be somehow related to safety or perceived safety. Good to see some work has actually been put into researching this further.
When talking to various female friends, I've come to realize most of them perceive city cycling as a much more dangerous experience than most of my male friends. Females always tend to worry about the worst case scenario, i.e. getting hit by a motor vehicle. However, most of them will actually ride in parks and on segregated bike lanes, because they perceive these to be safe. In comparison. I tend to look much more into efficiency, i.e. getting to my destination as fast as possible in order to be competitive to other forms of transportation. I also don't completely agree with the notion of safety on bike paths and in parks due to personal experience with these, but I can probably see why females would have these preferences.
When talking to various female friends, I've come to realize most of them perceive city cycling as a much more dangerous experience than most of my male friends. Females always tend to worry about the worst case scenario, i.e. getting hit by a motor vehicle. However, most of them will actually ride in parks and on segregated bike lanes, because they perceive these to be safe. In comparison. I tend to look much more into efficiency, i.e. getting to my destination as fast as possible in order to be competitive to other forms of transportation. I also don't completely agree with the notion of safety on bike paths and in parks due to personal experience with these, but I can probably see why females would have these preferences.
07-10-15, 01:52 PM
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Safety is a concern for both men and women. Be aware of your surrounding, and have a plan to defend yourself, or evade. Sadly NYC is what it is, and people as I understand it are not allowed to own gthe tools for personal defence.
About a week ago I stopped on a corner to just take a 30 second break, now this guy is walking down the street talking to himself. No he was not on a cell phone, or other communication device. He was what we use to call a 5150 aka crazy. I went on alert watched him as he passed behind me, as I had unmmounterd, and had my pepper spray at the ready. Apprently his was some resident kid, who was 5150, and continued on his walk. I remounted and rode on, but I was prepared.
About a week ago I stopped on a corner to just take a 30 second break, now this guy is walking down the street talking to himself. No he was not on a cell phone, or other communication device. He was what we use to call a 5150 aka crazy. I went on alert watched him as he passed behind me, as I had unmmounterd, and had my pepper spray at the ready. Apprently his was some resident kid, who was 5150, and continued on his walk. I remounted and rode on, but I was prepared.
07-10-15, 01:57 PM
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The kid trailers attach to any bike. I still like riding the Colnago Super road bike, with our without a trailer, although my other bikes have a little lower gearing which is good at times.
The chainstay clamps had to be modified for the small Colnago chainstays. On the Litespeed, I find the titanium to be a bit slippery for the chainstay clamps, but works fine for the trailer with a chainstay/seatstay clamp.
My Tricross is OK, I just don't like riding the bike that much. And I tried a hybrid (empty) yesterday, and will need to do some changes to it before taking it out on the open road.
As far as the heavy cargo trailer, I use a straight tongue, so it is paired with my cargo bike.
Anyway, I suppose I am diverging from the women riding topic.
I do think, however, that the small kid trailers could be towed by anybody, especially if the rides could be designed to be somewhat short and flat, and they are excellent for quick grocery trips.
My next cargo bike will be a longnose bike, so we'll see how that one goes.
07-10-15, 02:04 PM
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About a week ago I stopped on a corner to just take a 30 second break, now this guy is walking down the street talking to himself. No he was not on a cell phone, or other communication device. He was what we use to call a 5150 aka crazy. I went on alert watched him as he passed behind me, as I had unmmounterd, and had my pepper spray at the ready. Apprently his was some resident kid, who was 5150, and continued on his walk. I remounted and rode on, but I was prepared.
Sometimes the people with a little different perception of the world can make for the most entertaining conversations.
07-10-15, 02:04 PM
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The same barriers that sop men from cycling as well; barriers against cars.
I think the more protected bike lanes a city has, the more women(and men)
will bike in that city. Me, I just carry on with or without bike lanes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0slPlNDxBi0&index=70&list=UUHyRS8bRu6zPoymgKaIoDLA
07-10-15, 02:11 PM
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LET'S ROLL
I'll use the shoulder if there's one available. And if I'm going as fast as the cars; I'll "take the lane":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFf8...6zPoymgKaIoDLA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFf8...6zPoymgKaIoDLA
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07-10-15, 02:14 PM
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I do not think the person I described was interested in talking to anyone but himself. Sad part of the story he could be one of of veterans who was sent to ther sand wars so many time he snapped.
I see a lot of veterans every time I go to the VA Hospital for clinic appointments, who have let say been over used by and undermanned military.
07-10-15, 02:26 PM
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there are few people that are that shallow, to assume NYC'ers are all completely shallow is silly. NYC'ers are busy people. time is of the essence and our transit options are not great - that is they're deteriorating and not very dependable or timely. it's actually a small city and pretty do-able on a bike depending on how far you might be.
the Citi-bikers - a test as to who's riding the bikes - shows a huge proportion of men to women. 3:1 for actual trips taken 2:1 membership. many articles have guessed at silly reasons as to why. but the two articles i point out looks at data.
1- perception of safety, women are more risk averse than men
2- b/c of point 1, thus it's hard to do with our kids
cycling makes cities safer for peds and motorists. vision zero has become a reality in europe and USA is so far behind. and as it states - if you don't have women on your side to normalize it for seniors and kids, you have a problem with your bicycling system. it will never get off the ground if it doesn't include everyone.
it's not a hobby. it's about quality of life and not getting killed on the roads. this goes for pedestrians as well as for cyclists. how many bicyclists get killed in the US? it's like 1 every X hours or something crazy like that. in Paris they have no casualties in the recent year.
the Citi-bikers - a test as to who's riding the bikes - shows a huge proportion of men to women. 3:1 for actual trips taken 2:1 membership. many articles have guessed at silly reasons as to why. but the two articles i point out looks at data.
1- perception of safety, women are more risk averse than men
2- b/c of point 1, thus it's hard to do with our kids
cycling makes cities safer for peds and motorists. vision zero has become a reality in europe and USA is so far behind. and as it states - if you don't have women on your side to normalize it for seniors and kids, you have a problem with your bicycling system. it will never get off the ground if it doesn't include everyone.
it's not a hobby. it's about quality of life and not getting killed on the roads. this goes for pedestrians as well as for cyclists. how many bicyclists get killed in the US? it's like 1 every X hours or something crazy like that. in Paris they have no casualties in the recent year.
2) NYC still has one the largest and most efficient public transportation systems on the planet.
Not exactly where you were going with those two misconceptions but I felt the need to clear things up, sorry.
If I had to hazard a couple of theories I would lean towards fashion and mechanics.
Right or wrong (and I personally believe it to be wrong) women have to hold themselves to higher standards when it comes to personal appearance. And nothing destroys your personal appearance quite like a brisk bide ride in any weather.
As far as mechanics are concerned I believe that most women unfortunately were never taught how to maintain a bicycle, or lawn mower or car, etc...
Not judging them on it as firmly believe that women are 100% just as capable as men as far as mechanical ability is concerned. They simply just do not gravitate to it in general.
My .02 for what it's worth.
And for whatever else it is worth I personally have 0 mechanical ability and could not even change a flat front tire right now if there was a gun to my head.
Last edited by bakes1; 07-10-15 at 02:35 PM. Reason: add
07-10-15, 02:35 PM
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07-10-15, 02:38 PM
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I'll use the shoulder if there's one available. And if I'm going as fast as the cars; I'll "take the lane":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFf8...6zPoymgKaIoDLA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFf8...6zPoymgKaIoDLA
07-10-15, 02:49 PM
#36
LET'S ROLL
And like any camera with a zoom lens; it would vibrate when you hit a big pothole/bump. This was before GoPro and Contour were getting popular. I did end up with a
ContourGPS after a while. Still using 4 years later:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jea4lv48bDQ&list=UUHyRS8bRu6zPoymgKaIoDLA&index=29
And just to steer the discussion back a bit on topic - not much protected lanes in PR also; not much women riding too.
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07-10-15, 03:58 PM
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1) NYC'ers are no busier than the rest of us. Their time is no more valuable than anyone else's time. Seriously?...
2) NYC still has one the largest and most efficient public transportation systems on the planet.
Not exactly where you were going with those two misconceptions but I felt the need to clear things up, sorry.
If I had to hazard a couple of theories I would lean towards fashion and mechanics.
Right or wrong (and I personally believe it to be wrong) women have to hold themselves to higher standards when it comes to personal appearance. And nothing destroys your personal appearance quite like a brisk bide ride in any weather.
As far as mechanics are concerned I believe that most women unfortunately were never taught how to maintain a bicycle, or lawn mower or car, etc...
Not judging them on it as firmly believe that women are 100% just as capable as men as far as mechanical ability is concerned. They simply just do not gravitate to it in general.
My .02 for what it's worth.
And for whatever else it is worth I personally have 0 mechanical ability and could not even change a flat front tire right now if there was a gun to my head.
2) NYC still has one the largest and most efficient public transportation systems on the planet.
Not exactly where you were going with those two misconceptions but I felt the need to clear things up, sorry.
If I had to hazard a couple of theories I would lean towards fashion and mechanics.
Right or wrong (and I personally believe it to be wrong) women have to hold themselves to higher standards when it comes to personal appearance. And nothing destroys your personal appearance quite like a brisk bide ride in any weather.
As far as mechanics are concerned I believe that most women unfortunately were never taught how to maintain a bicycle, or lawn mower or car, etc...
Not judging them on it as firmly believe that women are 100% just as capable as men as far as mechanical ability is concerned. They simply just do not gravitate to it in general.
My .02 for what it's worth.
And for whatever else it is worth I personally have 0 mechanical ability and could not even change a flat front tire right now if there was a gun to my head.
NYC the most efficient public transit system? no. automated trains such as in London are far more efficient. the trains in Tokyo Japan are far more efficient. if you are comparing NYC to the other biggest cities in the world with respect to # of people transiting, timeliness and other such factors, the transit system i would grade a B-
if your logic is true, women have no business walking the streets of manhattan in this awful heat. or in the pouring rain. they should probably not go to work at all if that logic holds. sorry for the sarcasm but there are men that do not ride due to helmet hair and such, too (appearance related reasons). to generalize that all women are such and such fussy about their appearance is just beyond silly. it's like saying all men don't mind being stinky all day and offending their coworkers. maybe there are greater percentages of women:men and men: women to each of these points - but the deciding factor? i would be persuaded by data to this end, but i don't see any. and think about that everyone maintains their own preference for their appearance in degrees. everyone is unique.
also, i think everyone i know that rides to work has a shower available to them and uses it...
as for mechanics. that's another issue. many bike shop mechanics are men and women customers are routinely stereotyped. that doesn't really help with any learning for obvious reasons. i'm not saying it hasn't improved, it's definitely gotten better. i personally have not experienced it. but. this is the complaint i hear from women.
Last edited by snow_echo_NY; 07-13-15 at 10:58 AM.
07-10-15, 04:48 PM
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i never said NYC'ers time is more important than others. your response is based on what you interpreted. re-read what i wrote.
NYC the most efficient public transit system? no. automated trains such as in London are far more efficient. the trains in Tokyo Japan are far more efficient. if you are comparing NYC to the other biggest cities in the world with respect to # of people transiting, timeliness and other such factors, the transit system i would grade a B-
if your logic is true, women have no business walking the streets of manhattan in this awful heat. or in the pouring rain. they should probably not go to work at all if that logic holds. sorry for the sarcasm but there are men that do this too. to generalize that all women are such and such fussy about their appearance is just beyond silly. it's like saying all men don't mind being stinky all day and offending their coworkers. maybe there are greater percentages of women:men and men: women to each of these points - but the deciding factor? i would be persuaded by data to this end, but i don't see any. and think about that everyone maintains their own preference for their appearance in degrees. everyone is unique.
also, i think everyone i know that rides to work has a shower available to them and uses it...
as for mechanics. that's another issue. many bike shop mechanics are men and women customers are routinely stereotyped. that doesn't really help with any learning for obvious reasons. i'm not saying it hasn't improved, it's definitely gotten better. i personally have not experienced it. but. this is the complaint i hear from women.
NYC the most efficient public transit system? no. automated trains such as in London are far more efficient. the trains in Tokyo Japan are far more efficient. if you are comparing NYC to the other biggest cities in the world with respect to # of people transiting, timeliness and other such factors, the transit system i would grade a B-
if your logic is true, women have no business walking the streets of manhattan in this awful heat. or in the pouring rain. they should probably not go to work at all if that logic holds. sorry for the sarcasm but there are men that do this too. to generalize that all women are such and such fussy about their appearance is just beyond silly. it's like saying all men don't mind being stinky all day and offending their coworkers. maybe there are greater percentages of women:men and men: women to each of these points - but the deciding factor? i would be persuaded by data to this end, but i don't see any. and think about that everyone maintains their own preference for their appearance in degrees. everyone is unique.
also, i think everyone i know that rides to work has a shower available to them and uses it...
as for mechanics. that's another issue. many bike shop mechanics are men and women customers are routinely stereotyped. that doesn't really help with any learning for obvious reasons. i'm not saying it hasn't improved, it's definitely gotten better. i personally have not experienced it. but. this is the complaint i hear from women.
I never said or even implied that women shouldn't bike/walk in NYC. I simply stated as far as bicycling is concerned 'fashion' was my "theory" and never claimed it to be fact. Not sure but think other people in this thread may have also speculated that fashion may be a factor no?
That being said, your walking analogy is quite ridiculous. There is no comparing the effects of walking vs bicycling as far as personal appearance is concerned. Other than shoes. How many walkers (male or female) bring full changes of clothes to change into when they walk to work?
I would bet the ranch that the % of people bringing a change of clothes is much, much higher for bicyclists.
Lastly, I stand by my simple interpretation of your silly time comments.
Why else would you have specifically stated "NYC'ers" for your references to being "busy people" and "time is of the essence"??
Or did you mean the whole world when you said that and just thought we all needed to be reminded that we are busy? Seriously?
Whatever though
Your entire, rambling OP amounts to nothing other than you relaying other people's dubious findings that women don't ride bikes as much as men because they are scared and/or simply lack the guts. That's cool and I am down with that so rock on
07-10-15, 08:39 PM
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07-10-15, 08:47 PM
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We wear cycling shorts like any other cyclist.
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07-10-15, 08:54 PM
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I am a female cyclist and have been asked this question on several occasions. But I don't have an answer for it.
My father cycles, my mother cycles ... I cycle.
I don't know what barriers there might be because I grew up with it. Cycling is something I've always done.
Concerns like ... safety, clothing choices, etc. have never been a concern for me.
So maybe that's part of it. If you get your girls into cycling at an early age, maybe they'll just think it is a normal thing to do.
Do any of you have daughters?
Do you ride with them? Do you participate in other sports with them, or encourage them to participate in sports? If not ... why not?
My father cycles, my mother cycles ... I cycle.
I don't know what barriers there might be because I grew up with it. Cycling is something I've always done.
Concerns like ... safety, clothing choices, etc. have never been a concern for me.
So maybe that's part of it. If you get your girls into cycling at an early age, maybe they'll just think it is a normal thing to do.
Do any of you have daughters?
Do you ride with them? Do you participate in other sports with them, or encourage them to participate in sports? If not ... why not?
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07-11-15, 03:31 AM
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This thread is funny to me. In Denmark every female owns a City bike except me (not the norm im an expat) I brought my Specialized from the states and own a car. They are the inexpensive choice and cheaper than public transportation. OT, road bikes are called Racers which imply you RACE bikes and also imply you are a bike "nerd" or hobbyist not something you spend money on to do everyday or just to get fit.
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07-11-15, 11:03 AM
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There is more than just road safety to be concerned with. Women are generally not very "safe" in public spaces. Subject to street harassment that can escalate.
I find I get all sorts of comments riding my bike. Most are innocuous, and surprisingly more pleasant than the harassment I have experienced walking. But it surely isn't comfortable for randos walking or driving by making sexual innuendos when you are riding your bike. And there are places I would avoid altogether due to harassment risk.
Additionally we are "trained" to not go out alone at night due to security risks of physical attacks and the like. I wouldn't want to have to grab my bike on a dark desserted street and head home late at night.
I find I get all sorts of comments riding my bike. Most are innocuous, and surprisingly more pleasant than the harassment I have experienced walking. But it surely isn't comfortable for randos walking or driving by making sexual innuendos when you are riding your bike. And there are places I would avoid altogether due to harassment risk.
Additionally we are "trained" to not go out alone at night due to security risks of physical attacks and the like. I wouldn't want to have to grab my bike on a dark desserted street and head home late at night.
07-13-15, 06:34 AM
#45
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In my experience, and from current observation, boys ride their bikes (as children) more than girls do (at least in the U.S.). Little girls might learn to ride, but it falls by the wayside sooner than it does for boys. So boys get more experience and are therefore more likely to ride as adults.
I have two girls. They ride a bit, but overall since they became teens they aren't really interested. They give me all kinds of excuses (mostly saying they don't like riding near cars), and I do my best to get them to ride, but it's like pulling teeth. My hope is that I've given them enough experience so when they get a bit older, and maybe live in an area where cycling is more everyday, they will find the interest on their own.
07-13-15, 07:41 AM
#46
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When commuting, my daughter doesn't, she wears a skirt so she is ready for work. People would not understand dedicated cycling clothing for anything other than sport riding.
Second, there really is nowhere to change. No one, who needs to dress well, is going to go into a stall with a squat toilet and allow their clothing to touch the ground.
Second, there really is nowhere to change. No one, who needs to dress well, is going to go into a stall with a squat toilet and allow their clothing to touch the ground.
07-13-15, 07:59 AM
#47
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There is more than just road safety to be concerned with. Women are generally not very "safe" in public spaces. Subject to street harassment that can escalate.
. . . But it surely isn't comfortable for randos walking or driving by making sexual innuendos when you are riding your bike.
. . . But it surely isn't comfortable for randos walking or driving by making sexual innuendos when you are riding your bike.
My daughter and I have ridden all over the world, not always together (and reality check, I haven't ridden in South America in nearly 40 years, and neither of us has ridden in Oz yet [if they are Ozzie's, the they must live in Oz, right?]). Europe and Asia seem okay for safety. I was concerned with the high speed, careless driving in KSA; but she wasn't there.
About the only place we feel a bit unsafe touring is the US. That is because of the crazy, aggressive, anti-vagrancy laws in the US.
As far as commuting safety, the drivers in the US are significantly more polite than in Asia. Yes, we have ridden extensively in China, separate and together. The driving is very poor; however, generally, people are driving so slow that even whey the hit you it isn't a big deal (but it makes my daughter angry).
As far as
sexual innuendos
07-13-15, 08:19 AM
#48
LET'S ROLL
I have studied/lived/traveled in China as well. The big cities that have a lot of bike lanes; also plenty of female cyclists(50:50 ratio):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi01...IoDLA&index=44
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi01...IoDLA&index=44
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07-13-15, 10:39 AM
#49
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I need to be clear that I may make statements that some will find offensive, but they are not intended to be universal. I may for example make a statement that men are scum, but if so, this does not mean all men... just enough that they pollute society.
My hypothesis, based on a few women I have ridden with is that in addition to the inherent risk to all riders, women face the additional hurdle of being more apt to be assaulted/harassed/accosted than men are.
My perception could be somewhat age biased because of my age. However, people I know tend to avoid a variety of situations unless they feel a level of safety, and because of their vulnerability in a society with a high level of misogyny and men's debauchery the level of safety that women need to feel comfortable is higher than what most men can tolerate.
I have a few female friends in the 40+ age group, and it is common for them to avoid certain situations (whether cycling, driving, walking, sitting or whatever) unless they are with one or more other people. They tend to seek the extra security of someone else being there at times/locations that I wouldn't hesitate to do alone.
As a made up scenario. If 10% of men are misogynistic, and 10% of those are outright hostile toward women, then one out of every hundred men are to be avoided by women... and a woman on the streets of a city is statistically likely to pass that one person pretty frequently depending on where she is. While it is true that we are all at slight risk from lunatics, historically women are susceptible to all lunatics that men are, plus the men out there who target their hatred (or their sense of entitlement) at women... and even worse we have to remember in both cases, there are those who are good at hiding their hatred and violent/deviant desires.
In short, I suspect a lot more women would ride bikes if they only had to deal with the risks that men deal with.
I think things are changing, but for now, this just appears to be the society that we live in. We have made changes, and hopefully we, and our descendants, will continue that trend!
My hypothesis, based on a few women I have ridden with is that in addition to the inherent risk to all riders, women face the additional hurdle of being more apt to be assaulted/harassed/accosted than men are.
My perception could be somewhat age biased because of my age. However, people I know tend to avoid a variety of situations unless they feel a level of safety, and because of their vulnerability in a society with a high level of misogyny and men's debauchery the level of safety that women need to feel comfortable is higher than what most men can tolerate.
I have a few female friends in the 40+ age group, and it is common for them to avoid certain situations (whether cycling, driving, walking, sitting or whatever) unless they are with one or more other people. They tend to seek the extra security of someone else being there at times/locations that I wouldn't hesitate to do alone.
As a made up scenario. If 10% of men are misogynistic, and 10% of those are outright hostile toward women, then one out of every hundred men are to be avoided by women... and a woman on the streets of a city is statistically likely to pass that one person pretty frequently depending on where she is. While it is true that we are all at slight risk from lunatics, historically women are susceptible to all lunatics that men are, plus the men out there who target their hatred (or their sense of entitlement) at women... and even worse we have to remember in both cases, there are those who are good at hiding their hatred and violent/deviant desires.
In short, I suspect a lot more women would ride bikes if they only had to deal with the risks that men deal with.
I think things are changing, but for now, this just appears to be the society that we live in. We have made changes, and hopefully we, and our descendants, will continue that trend!
it's misogynistic and people should not have to be subject to this garbage.
07-13-15, 10:46 AM
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er, as much as you think it's about you, it's not...? i don't take offense.
the logic you draw and that i point out, is silly.
regardless of your stance on helmets, there's a good point to make.
why do women even insist on riding with a helmet? by law, they don't have to. my guess is that a helmet is perceived to be a safe choice. i read somewhere women are more likely to wear a helmet than men - but, i can't find or remember what i read and post it here. oh well. i did my own little helmet counting of cyclists in front of a very busy shop here in Brooklyn to see - i saw 4 women cyclists, all whom wore helmets. 11 men cyclists 4 of whom did not wear helmets and the rest wore helmets. it hardly counts as a study lol but it would be interesting to see.
so the root of the bad-hair helmet theory (why women don't ride) - i would guess is ultimately tied to the perception that a helmet means safety, that is, a safety measure that the woman rider can control and choose.
of course, the safety impact of wearing a helmet (and doing so correctly) is subject to debate.
your last sentence and mysogynistic opinion and jab is uncalled for tho.
the logic you draw and that i point out, is silly.
regardless of your stance on helmets, there's a good point to make.
why do women even insist on riding with a helmet? by law, they don't have to. my guess is that a helmet is perceived to be a safe choice. i read somewhere women are more likely to wear a helmet than men - but, i can't find or remember what i read and post it here. oh well. i did my own little helmet counting of cyclists in front of a very busy shop here in Brooklyn to see - i saw 4 women cyclists, all whom wore helmets. 11 men cyclists 4 of whom did not wear helmets and the rest wore helmets. it hardly counts as a study lol but it would be interesting to see.
so the root of the bad-hair helmet theory (why women don't ride) - i would guess is ultimately tied to the perception that a helmet means safety, that is, a safety measure that the woman rider can control and choose.
of course, the safety impact of wearing a helmet (and doing so correctly) is subject to debate.
your last sentence and mysogynistic opinion and jab is uncalled for tho.
Not sure why you appear to have taken offense to almost everything I said.
I never said or even implied that women shouldn't bike/walk in NYC. I simply stated as far as bicycling is concerned 'fashion' was my "theory" and never claimed it to be fact. Not sure but think other people in this thread may have also speculated that fashion may be a factor no?
That being said, your walking analogy is quite ridiculous. There is no comparing the effects of walking vs bicycling as far as personal appearance is concerned. Other than shoes. How many walkers (male or female) bring full changes of clothes to change into when they walk to work?
I would bet the ranch that the % of people bringing a change of clothes is much, much higher for bicyclists.
Lastly, I stand by my simple interpretation of your silly time comments.
Why else would you have specifically stated "NYC'ers" for your references to being "busy people" and "time is of the essence"??
Or did you mean the whole world when you said that and just thought we all needed to be reminded that we are busy? Seriously?
Whatever though
Your entire, rambling OP amounts to nothing other than you relaying other people's dubious findings that women don't ride bikes as much as men because they are scared and/or simply lack the guts. That's cool and I am down with that so rock on
I never said or even implied that women shouldn't bike/walk in NYC. I simply stated as far as bicycling is concerned 'fashion' was my "theory" and never claimed it to be fact. Not sure but think other people in this thread may have also speculated that fashion may be a factor no?
That being said, your walking analogy is quite ridiculous. There is no comparing the effects of walking vs bicycling as far as personal appearance is concerned. Other than shoes. How many walkers (male or female) bring full changes of clothes to change into when they walk to work?
I would bet the ranch that the % of people bringing a change of clothes is much, much higher for bicyclists.
Lastly, I stand by my simple interpretation of your silly time comments.
Why else would you have specifically stated "NYC'ers" for your references to being "busy people" and "time is of the essence"??
Or did you mean the whole world when you said that and just thought we all needed to be reminded that we are busy? Seriously?
Whatever though
Your entire, rambling OP amounts to nothing other than you relaying other people's dubious findings that women don't ride bikes as much as men because they are scared and/or simply lack the guts. That's cool and I am down with that so rock on