I might be an idiot here... but I just got hit.
09-02-15, 02:45 PM
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I might be an idiot here... but I just got hit.
Commuting my regular 6 mi journey this morning, and just got to the point where I turn left from the bike path to cross the street.
On the road, headed the same direction as I was riding, is a white SUV. Between the bike path I rode and where she was, there's a huge residential wall that blocks me until I actually get to the corner. The SUV is looking to turn right, and is looking at crossing traffic before she can go.
Now, here's where it gets gray to me. The sign is flashing that white walk sign, which gives me the go-ahead to cross, right?
As I cross (without making the 'mandatory' eye contact with the driver), she gases and takes me down. I fall flat on the street in traffic.
She apologizes profusely, checks to see I'm okay, pulls over to the other street so we can exchange information in case my bike needs fixing, which she'll cover.
So here's the debate we have here:
She learns me some knowledge, saying that I should've crossed over to the other side of the street first, so that I can travel with traffic. I told her I'm not doing that, that school is less than a quarter mile down the street, and there's no cross walk/sidewalk on that side of the street, as well as I'd have to cross over 4 lanes of traffic with cars going 35 mph at a time of heavy traffic.
She also says that I wasn't supposed to cross, that it was blinking the countdown to stop crossing. I'm absolutely 100% sure the walk sign was still going for me though. She just ran without looking over.
So, before I get lashed on if I was in the wrong, here's what I'll acknowledge:
- That whole 'make sure they see you' thing before you cross? Yeah, there might be some utility in that strategy.
But other than that, what's the verdict here? Am I wrong to be traveling against traffic on a sidewalk to get to school going like 8mph? Or is this a non-negotiable, that I need to travel with traffic all day, every day?
On the road, headed the same direction as I was riding, is a white SUV. Between the bike path I rode and where she was, there's a huge residential wall that blocks me until I actually get to the corner. The SUV is looking to turn right, and is looking at crossing traffic before she can go.
Now, here's where it gets gray to me. The sign is flashing that white walk sign, which gives me the go-ahead to cross, right?
As I cross (without making the 'mandatory' eye contact with the driver), she gases and takes me down. I fall flat on the street in traffic.
She apologizes profusely, checks to see I'm okay, pulls over to the other street so we can exchange information in case my bike needs fixing, which she'll cover.
So here's the debate we have here:
She learns me some knowledge, saying that I should've crossed over to the other side of the street first, so that I can travel with traffic. I told her I'm not doing that, that school is less than a quarter mile down the street, and there's no cross walk/sidewalk on that side of the street, as well as I'd have to cross over 4 lanes of traffic with cars going 35 mph at a time of heavy traffic.
She also says that I wasn't supposed to cross, that it was blinking the countdown to stop crossing. I'm absolutely 100% sure the walk sign was still going for me though. She just ran without looking over.
So, before I get lashed on if I was in the wrong, here's what I'll acknowledge:
- That whole 'make sure they see you' thing before you cross? Yeah, there might be some utility in that strategy.
But other than that, what's the verdict here? Am I wrong to be traveling against traffic on a sidewalk to get to school going like 8mph? Or is this a non-negotiable, that I need to travel with traffic all day, every day?
09-02-15, 02:54 PM
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Commuting my regular 6 mi journey this morning, and just got to the point where I turn left from the bike path to cross the street.
On the road, headed the same direction as I was riding, is a white SUV. Between the bike path I rode and where she was, there's a huge residential wall that blocks me until I actually get to the corner. The SUV is looking to turn right, and is looking at crossing traffic before she can go.
Now, here's where it gets gray to me. The sign is flashing that white walk sign, which gives me the go-ahead to cross, right?
As I cross (without making the 'mandatory' eye contact with the driver), she gases and takes me down. I fall flat on the street in traffic.
She apologizes profusely, checks to see I'm okay, pulls over to the other street so we can exchange information in case my bike needs fixing, which she'll cover.
So here's the debate we have here:
She learns me some knowledge, saying that I should've crossed over to the other side of the street first, so that I can travel with traffic. I told her I'm not doing that, that school is less than a quarter mile down the street, and there's no cross walk/sidewalk on that side of the street, as well as I'd have to cross over 4 lanes of traffic with cars going 35 mph at a time of heavy traffic.
She also says that I wasn't supposed to cross, that it was blinking the countdown to stop crossing. I'm absolutely 100% sure the walk sign was still going for me though. She just ran without looking over.
So, before I get lashed on if I was in the wrong, here's what I'll acknowledge:
- That whole 'make sure they see you' thing before you cross? Yeah, there might be some utility in that strategy.
But other than that, what's the verdict here? Am I wrong to be traveling against traffic on a sidewalk to get to school going like 8mph? Or is this a non-negotiable, that I need to travel with traffic all day, every day?
On the road, headed the same direction as I was riding, is a white SUV. Between the bike path I rode and where she was, there's a huge residential wall that blocks me until I actually get to the corner. The SUV is looking to turn right, and is looking at crossing traffic before she can go.
Now, here's where it gets gray to me. The sign is flashing that white walk sign, which gives me the go-ahead to cross, right?
As I cross (without making the 'mandatory' eye contact with the driver), she gases and takes me down. I fall flat on the street in traffic.
She apologizes profusely, checks to see I'm okay, pulls over to the other street so we can exchange information in case my bike needs fixing, which she'll cover.
So here's the debate we have here:
She learns me some knowledge, saying that I should've crossed over to the other side of the street first, so that I can travel with traffic. I told her I'm not doing that, that school is less than a quarter mile down the street, and there's no cross walk/sidewalk on that side of the street, as well as I'd have to cross over 4 lanes of traffic with cars going 35 mph at a time of heavy traffic.
She also says that I wasn't supposed to cross, that it was blinking the countdown to stop crossing. I'm absolutely 100% sure the walk sign was still going for me though. She just ran without looking over.
So, before I get lashed on if I was in the wrong, here's what I'll acknowledge:
- That whole 'make sure they see you' thing before you cross? Yeah, there might be some utility in that strategy.
But other than that, what's the verdict here? Am I wrong to be traveling against traffic on a sidewalk to get to school going like 8mph? Or is this a non-negotiable, that I need to travel with traffic all day, every day?
However, assuming the law is the same in Arizona - a rather big assumption - it is illegal to be on a sidewalk. This sort of accident is actually the very reason why.
09-02-15, 02:57 PM
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The driver was negligent for not paying more attention, although you're the one stuck living with any injuries that result.
Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 09-02-15 at 03:01 PM.
09-02-15, 03:03 PM
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IMO.. I think you are technically wrong if you are riding your bike on the wrong side against traffic. And I think that you are not allowed to ride in the crosswalk.
I also think that if the countdown is in red, not sure about Arizona, so if it was already counting down you might be wrong there also.
That said she has some liability for hitting you with her car. If you had been a pedestrian and had legally entered the crosswalk before the countdown, it would have been all her fault.
John
I also think that if the countdown is in red, not sure about Arizona, so if it was already counting down you might be wrong there also.
That said she has some liability for hitting you with her car. If you had been a pedestrian and had legally entered the crosswalk before the countdown, it would have been all her fault.
John
09-02-15, 03:13 PM
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You were both wrong. The driver has a duty to make sure the way is clear, and the countdown doesn't mean what she thinks it does. Not where I live anyways.
However, assuming the law is the same in Arizona - a rather big assumption - it is illegal to be on a sidewalk. This sort of accident is actually the very reason why.
However, assuming the law is the same in Arizona - a rather big assumption - it is illegal to be on a sidewalk. This sort of accident is actually the very reason why.
Yes. Act like a vehicle (use the correct lanes where cars are looking for same direction vehicle-speed traffic) or behave like a pedestrian (go 3 MPH. Some places you'd also need to walk your bike to be legal, although for practical purposes walking speed alone is enough). Drivers' autopilots aren't setup to deal with combinations of the two.
The driver was negligent for not paying more attention, although you're the one stuck living with any injuries that result.
The driver was negligent for not paying more attention, although you're the one stuck living with any injuries that result.
09-02-15, 03:14 PM
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I just got into a big discussion about this same scenario in another thread,
Most important, I'm glad that you're OK!
Second, it's up to the driver to avoid running over anyone, period. She should see you in the crosswalk, especially with a pedestrian light. And you are right, the countdown does mean that the pedestrian can be in the crosswalk and drivers must yield.
That said, the situation you described is just about the scariest to me, of any of my normal riding. If I have it right, the driver is pulling up to a left turn and you're on the far side (to her left) and crossing the intersection in the crosswalk, against traffic. Right?
The reason this scares me is that drivers turning left are not going to be looking in that direction, for something moving quickly. They're looking for cross traffic on the road they're turning onto, and traffic coming towards them. You're in the area where traffic is already gone, and not important to them. A bicycle flies out from there and they won't see it, even if they should. So (on the wrong side) I even wait and won't go across if there is a car in the left turn lane, even when I had green or a pedestrian signal.
Technically we're supposed to dismount and walk in the crosswalk, magically becoming "pedestrian" instead of "vehicle". Frankly I don't see how that makes us safer, but most drivers do know that they can't run over pedestrians in the crosswalk, and a bicycle seems to short-circuit their logic centers so maybe that's the best option there.
Most important, I'm glad that you're OK!
Second, it's up to the driver to avoid running over anyone, period. She should see you in the crosswalk, especially with a pedestrian light. And you are right, the countdown does mean that the pedestrian can be in the crosswalk and drivers must yield.
That said, the situation you described is just about the scariest to me, of any of my normal riding. If I have it right, the driver is pulling up to a left turn and you're on the far side (to her left) and crossing the intersection in the crosswalk, against traffic. Right?
The reason this scares me is that drivers turning left are not going to be looking in that direction, for something moving quickly. They're looking for cross traffic on the road they're turning onto, and traffic coming towards them. You're in the area where traffic is already gone, and not important to them. A bicycle flies out from there and they won't see it, even if they should. So (on the wrong side) I even wait and won't go across if there is a car in the left turn lane, even when I had green or a pedestrian signal.
Technically we're supposed to dismount and walk in the crosswalk, magically becoming "pedestrian" instead of "vehicle". Frankly I don't see how that makes us safer, but most drivers do know that they can't run over pedestrians in the crosswalk, and a bicycle seems to short-circuit their logic centers so maybe that's the best option there.
09-02-15, 03:15 PM
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You should not be posting here. But since you have, here's my take.
You were wrong.
You should be VERY careful if you can't see traffic until you are at the crosswalk because of the wall. If it were me, there's no way I'd go full speed into that intersection. It's plain dumb. You're just asking for something like this to happen. You should not be riding on the sidewalk (if that's what it was.) The "flashing sign" means you should not start to cross. Since you were not already in the crosswalk, you were in the wrong again.
Think about what you do when you drive (if you're old enough.) If you're looking to turn right, do you look right? No, you look left. When the way is clear, you go. You were coming from the wrong direction (right) and you were traveling much faster than people that'd usually come from that direction. My personal opinion is that you were mostly in the wrong. Sure, the driver SHOULD have looked right, but even so, you were coming fast and from an odd (read, not normal) direction. You were responsible for the non-standard situation. (wphamilton had the same reasoning in the post above mine, although he was a bit more forgiving.)
For the record, I've gotten hit running (not biking) in this exact same situation. Although I was not in the wrong. The driver was going to blow through the light to turn right without stopping so was looking left as he approached the light. Ever since then, I make sure I have a clear view of the road and look down the road to make sure that more drivers aren't being negligent. (I also had the non-flashing "WALK" sign.)
You were wrong.
You should be VERY careful if you can't see traffic until you are at the crosswalk because of the wall. If it were me, there's no way I'd go full speed into that intersection. It's plain dumb. You're just asking for something like this to happen. You should not be riding on the sidewalk (if that's what it was.) The "flashing sign" means you should not start to cross. Since you were not already in the crosswalk, you were in the wrong again.
Think about what you do when you drive (if you're old enough.) If you're looking to turn right, do you look right? No, you look left. When the way is clear, you go. You were coming from the wrong direction (right) and you were traveling much faster than people that'd usually come from that direction. My personal opinion is that you were mostly in the wrong. Sure, the driver SHOULD have looked right, but even so, you were coming fast and from an odd (read, not normal) direction. You were responsible for the non-standard situation. (wphamilton had the same reasoning in the post above mine, although he was a bit more forgiving.)
For the record, I've gotten hit running (not biking) in this exact same situation. Although I was not in the wrong. The driver was going to blow through the light to turn right without stopping so was looking left as he approached the light. Ever since then, I make sure I have a clear view of the road and look down the road to make sure that more drivers aren't being negligent. (I also had the non-flashing "WALK" sign.)
Last edited by corrado33; 09-02-15 at 03:19 PM.
09-02-15, 03:16 PM
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You were both wrong. The driver has a duty to make sure the way is clear, and the countdown doesn't mean what she thinks it does. Not where I live anyways.
However, assuming the law is the same in Arizona - a rather big assumption - it is illegal to be on a sidewalk. This sort of accident is actually the very reason why.
However, assuming the law is the same in Arizona - a rather big assumption - it is illegal to be on a sidewalk. This sort of accident is actually the very reason why.
Crossing markings on roads and "walk" signals are used for both sidewalks and MUPs.
09-02-15, 03:26 PM
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Guy hit me once..I filed a Police Report that afternoon.. Sgt told me, guess What, you were his Fifth Accident in 3 Months.
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09-02-15, 03:29 PM
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This is a what happens a few times a month:
(WARNING - I have a potty mouth and use PG-13 language)
https://youtu.be/t65g-jwBTAI?t=1m32s You were not "legally wrong", but I NEVER trust right-turning traffic when I have the cross light, NEVER EVER!
Footnote - the video starts at 1:32, also making the point about these damned beg-buttons. I arrive with the signal, but because I have to request to cross, I have to wait a full cycle of the cross light. Also, by 1:39. the cross light has changed to the flashing red "don't cross" light... 7 seconds of "green light", nice.
Last edited by Hypno Toad; 09-02-15 at 03:34 PM.
09-02-15, 03:31 PM
#13
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I just got into a big discussion about this same scenario in another thread,
Most important, I'm glad that you're OK!
Second, it's up to the driver to avoid running over anyone, period. She should see you in the crosswalk, especially with a pedestrian light. And you are right, the countdown does mean that the pedestrian can be in the crosswalk and drivers must yield.
That said, the situation you described is just about the scariest to me, of any of my normal riding. If I have it right, the driver is pulling up to a left turn and you're on the far side (to her left) and crossing the intersection in the crosswalk, against traffic. Right?
The reason this scares me is that drivers turning left are not going to be looking in that direction, for something moving quickly. They're looking for cross traffic on the road they're turning onto, and traffic coming towards them. You're in the area where traffic is already gone, and not important to them. A bicycle flies out from there and they won't see it, even if they should. So (on the wrong side) I even wait and won't go across if there is a car in the left turn lane, even when I had green or a pedestrian signal.
Technically we're supposed to dismount and walk in the crosswalk, magically becoming "pedestrian" instead of "vehicle". Frankly I don't see how that makes us safer, but most drivers do know that they can't run over pedestrians in the crosswalk, and a bicycle seems to short-circuit their logic centers so maybe that's the best option there.
Most important, I'm glad that you're OK!
Second, it's up to the driver to avoid running over anyone, period. She should see you in the crosswalk, especially with a pedestrian light. And you are right, the countdown does mean that the pedestrian can be in the crosswalk and drivers must yield.
That said, the situation you described is just about the scariest to me, of any of my normal riding. If I have it right, the driver is pulling up to a left turn and you're on the far side (to her left) and crossing the intersection in the crosswalk, against traffic. Right?
The reason this scares me is that drivers turning left are not going to be looking in that direction, for something moving quickly. They're looking for cross traffic on the road they're turning onto, and traffic coming towards them. You're in the area where traffic is already gone, and not important to them. A bicycle flies out from there and they won't see it, even if they should. So (on the wrong side) I even wait and won't go across if there is a car in the left turn lane, even when I had green or a pedestrian signal.
Technically we're supposed to dismount and walk in the crosswalk, magically becoming "pedestrian" instead of "vehicle". Frankly I don't see how that makes us safer, but most drivers do know that they can't run over pedestrians in the crosswalk, and a bicycle seems to short-circuit their logic centers so maybe that's the best option there.
You have the scenario almost correct, except she was going to turn right, and I was on her passenger (far?) side trying to cross over. I was originally riding perpendicular to her, but on the other side of the residential wall. However, there's about 30 yards worth of sidewalk that opens up as we get to the corner.
You should not be posting here. But since you have, here's my take.
You were wrong.
You should be VERY careful if you can't see traffic until you are at the crosswalk because of the wall. If it were me, there's no way I'd go full speed into that intersection. It's plain dumb. You're just asking for something like this to happen. You should not be riding on the sidewalk (if that's what it was.) The "flashing sign" means you should not start to cross. Since you were not already in the crosswalk, you were in the wrong again.
Think about what you do when you drive (if you're old enough.) If you're looking to turn right, do you look right? No, you look left. When the way is clear, you go. You were coming from the wrong direction (right) and you were traveling much faster than people that'd usually come from that direction. My personal opinion is that you were mostly in the wrong. Sure, the driver SHOULD have looked right, but even so, you were coming fast and from an odd (read, not normal) direction. You were responsible for the non-standard situation. (WP had the same reasoning in the post above mine, although he was a bit more forgiving.)
For the record, I've gotten hit running (not biking) in this exact same situation. Although I was not in the wrong. The driver was going to blow through the light to turn right without stopping so was looking left as he approached the light. Ever since then, I make sure I have a clear view of the road and look down the road to make sure that more drivers aren't being negligent. (I also had the non-flashing "WALK" sign.)
You were wrong.
You should be VERY careful if you can't see traffic until you are at the crosswalk because of the wall. If it were me, there's no way I'd go full speed into that intersection. It's plain dumb. You're just asking for something like this to happen. You should not be riding on the sidewalk (if that's what it was.) The "flashing sign" means you should not start to cross. Since you were not already in the crosswalk, you were in the wrong again.
Think about what you do when you drive (if you're old enough.) If you're looking to turn right, do you look right? No, you look left. When the way is clear, you go. You were coming from the wrong direction (right) and you were traveling much faster than people that'd usually come from that direction. My personal opinion is that you were mostly in the wrong. Sure, the driver SHOULD have looked right, but even so, you were coming fast and from an odd (read, not normal) direction. You were responsible for the non-standard situation. (WP had the same reasoning in the post above mine, although he was a bit more forgiving.)
For the record, I've gotten hit running (not biking) in this exact same situation. Although I was not in the wrong. The driver was going to blow through the light to turn right without stopping so was looking left as he approached the light. Ever since then, I make sure I have a clear view of the road and look down the road to make sure that more drivers aren't being negligent. (I also had the non-flashing "WALK" sign.)
Have been for the past 17 years. Your judgment of what speed I was traveling is clouded, since I made no mention of that in the original post. I was certainly responsible for making sure I can control whatever I can to make sure I'm safe at the end of the day, sure... but the fact you're considering this a non-standard situation is exactly whats garnering this discussion... because I believe it's just as important to understand what rights we have as cyclists as well as hoping to generate dialogue for fellow riders to think about, hoping nobody else comes across the same (or worse) experience.
09-02-15, 03:35 PM
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09-02-15, 03:45 PM
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Sorry for the second post... anyway. My bike commute takes me through a complicated busy intersection where two country road meet and one serves as an exit for an interstate highway. I ride a residential road parallel to one county road, then cross to a sidepath (MUP) parallel to the other county road. Here's a map with my route in red:
This is a what happens a few times a month:
(WARNING - I have a potty mouth and use PG-13 language)
https://youtu.be/t65g-jwBTAI?t=1m32s You were not "legally wrong", but I NEVER trust right-turning traffic when I have the cross light, NEVER EVER!
Footnote - the video starts at 1:32, also making the point about these damned beg-buttons. I arrive with the signal, but because I have to request to cross, I have to wait a full cycle of the cross light. Also, by 1:39. the cross light has changed to the flashing red "don't cross" light... 7 seconds of "green light", nice.
This is a what happens a few times a month:
(WARNING - I have a potty mouth and use PG-13 language)
https://youtu.be/t65g-jwBTAI?t=1m32s You were not "legally wrong", but I NEVER trust right-turning traffic when I have the cross light, NEVER EVER!
Footnote - the video starts at 1:32, also making the point about these damned beg-buttons. I arrive with the signal, but because I have to request to cross, I have to wait a full cycle of the cross light. Also, by 1:39. the cross light has changed to the flashing red "don't cross" light... 7 seconds of "green light", nice.
Looks like you had your helmet light, so I'm assuming you had a bike light also for extra visibility.
Cars smh. I realized how little I actually paid attention on the road as a driver once I started riding the bike.
09-02-15, 03:48 PM
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Right, thank you, I misread and thought it had ended and spat him out onto a sidewalk. If it's one of those hybrid/MUP things, I think the OP is in the clear when it comes to fault. Although this might be an example of why this sort of infra is pretty poor.
09-02-15, 03:48 PM
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Thanks man. Always good to have another day.
You have the scenario almost correct, except she was going to turn right, and I was on her passenger (far?) side trying to cross over. I was originally riding perpendicular to her, but on the other side of the residential wall. However, there's about 30 yards worth of sidewalk that opens up as we get to the corner. ..
You have the scenario almost correct, except she was going to turn right, and I was on her passenger (far?) side trying to cross over. I was originally riding perpendicular to her, but on the other side of the residential wall. However, there's about 30 yards worth of sidewalk that opens up as we get to the corner. ..
She has less excuse then, than the left turn driver I was imagining. Since they should always look again before going. But some drivers just go, while looking back at the road to their left.
That's a difficult situation where even a "right" way to do it is dangerous. I can understand not crossing over to the right side, with the school just down the street and you'd have to cross three times instead of once. I might do it the same way you did. But keeping in mind that it's the "wrong" way (except as a pedestrian) and more caution is warranted.
09-02-15, 03:50 PM
#18
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You should not be posting here. But since you have, here's my take.
You were wrong.
You should be VERY careful if you can't see traffic until you are at the crosswalk because of the wall. If it were me, there's no way I'd go full speed into that intersection. It's plain dumb. You're just asking for something like this to happen. You should not be riding on the sidewalk (if that's what it was.) The "flashing sign" means you should not start to cross. Since you were not already in the crosswalk, you were in the wrong again.
Think about what you do when you drive (if you're old enough.) If you're looking to turn right, do you look right? No, you look left. When the way is clear, you go. You were coming from the wrong direction (right) and you were traveling much faster than people that'd usually come from that direction. My personal opinion is that you were mostly in the wrong. Sure, the driver SHOULD have looked right, but even so, you were coming fast and from an odd (read, not normal) direction. You were responsible for the non-standard situation. (wphamilton had the same reasoning in the post above mine, although he was a bit more forgiving.)
For the record, I've gotten hit running (not biking) in this exact same situation. Although I was not in the wrong. The driver was going to blow through the light to turn right without stopping so was looking left as he approached the light. Ever since then, I make sure I have a clear view of the road and look down the road to make sure that more drivers aren't being negligent. (I also had the non-flashing "WALK" sign.)
You were wrong.
You should be VERY careful if you can't see traffic until you are at the crosswalk because of the wall. If it were me, there's no way I'd go full speed into that intersection. It's plain dumb. You're just asking for something like this to happen. You should not be riding on the sidewalk (if that's what it was.) The "flashing sign" means you should not start to cross. Since you were not already in the crosswalk, you were in the wrong again.
Think about what you do when you drive (if you're old enough.) If you're looking to turn right, do you look right? No, you look left. When the way is clear, you go. You were coming from the wrong direction (right) and you were traveling much faster than people that'd usually come from that direction. My personal opinion is that you were mostly in the wrong. Sure, the driver SHOULD have looked right, but even so, you were coming fast and from an odd (read, not normal) direction. You were responsible for the non-standard situation. (wphamilton had the same reasoning in the post above mine, although he was a bit more forgiving.)
For the record, I've gotten hit running (not biking) in this exact same situation. Although I was not in the wrong. The driver was going to blow through the light to turn right without stopping so was looking left as he approached the light. Ever since then, I make sure I have a clear view of the road and look down the road to make sure that more drivers aren't being negligent. (I also had the non-flashing "WALK" sign.)
09-02-15, 04:12 PM
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Commuting my regular 6 mi journey this morning, and just got to the point where I turn left from the bike path to cross the street.
On the road, headed the same direction as I was riding, is a white SUV. Between the bike path I rode and where she was, there's a huge residential wall that blocks me until I actually get to the corner. The SUV is looking to turn right, and is looking at crossing traffic before she can go.
Now, here's where it gets gray to me. The sign is flashing that white walk sign, which gives me the go-ahead to cross, right?
As I cross (without making the 'mandatory' eye contact with the driver), she gases and takes me down. I fall flat on the street in traffic.
She apologizes profusely, checks to see I'm okay, pulls over to the other street so we can exchange information in case my bike needs fixing, which she'll cover.
So here's the debate we have here:
She learns me some knowledge, saying that I should've crossed over to the other side of the street first, so that I can travel with traffic. I told her I'm not doing that, that school is less than a quarter mile down the street, and there's no cross walk/sidewalk on that side of the street, as well as I'd have to cross over 4 lanes of traffic with cars going 35 mph at a time of heavy traffic.
She also says that I wasn't supposed to cross, that it was blinking the countdown to stop crossing. I'm absolutely 100% sure the walk sign was still going for me though. She just ran without looking over.
So, before I get lashed on if I was in the wrong, here's what I'll acknowledge:
- That whole 'make sure they see you' thing before you cross? Yeah, there might be some utility in that strategy.
But other than that, what's the verdict here? Am I wrong to be traveling against traffic on a sidewalk to get to school going like 8mph? Or is this a non-negotiable, that I need to travel with traffic all day, every day?
On the road, headed the same direction as I was riding, is a white SUV. Between the bike path I rode and where she was, there's a huge residential wall that blocks me until I actually get to the corner. The SUV is looking to turn right, and is looking at crossing traffic before she can go.
Now, here's where it gets gray to me. The sign is flashing that white walk sign, which gives me the go-ahead to cross, right?
As I cross (without making the 'mandatory' eye contact with the driver), she gases and takes me down. I fall flat on the street in traffic.
She apologizes profusely, checks to see I'm okay, pulls over to the other street so we can exchange information in case my bike needs fixing, which she'll cover.
So here's the debate we have here:
She learns me some knowledge, saying that I should've crossed over to the other side of the street first, so that I can travel with traffic. I told her I'm not doing that, that school is less than a quarter mile down the street, and there's no cross walk/sidewalk on that side of the street, as well as I'd have to cross over 4 lanes of traffic with cars going 35 mph at a time of heavy traffic.
She also says that I wasn't supposed to cross, that it was blinking the countdown to stop crossing. I'm absolutely 100% sure the walk sign was still going for me though. She just ran without looking over.
So, before I get lashed on if I was in the wrong, here's what I'll acknowledge:
- That whole 'make sure they see you' thing before you cross? Yeah, there might be some utility in that strategy.
But other than that, what's the verdict here? Am I wrong to be traveling against traffic on a sidewalk to get to school going like 8mph? Or is this a non-negotiable, that I need to travel with traffic all day, every day?
https://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-s...bers-read.html
09-02-15, 04:26 PM
#20
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Wow, you sound like my dad here. I'm gonna trust you mean this with good intent though, so I appreciate the approach. Although, there's some details you're missing. I was definitely able to get a broad view of all traffic as I got to the crosswalk. She just wasn't able to see me apparently. I certainly didn't go full speed into the crosswalk either, I actually stopped before looking over to notice that the walk sign was still in place. And by the walk sign, I mean the walk sign. Not the flashing countdown one. I'm definitely old enough to drive Have been for the past 17 years. Your judgment of what speed I was traveling is clouded, since I made no mention of that in the original post. I was certainly responsible for making sure I can control whatever I can to make sure I'm safe at the end of the day, sure... but the fact you're considering this a non-standard situation is exactly whats garnering this discussion... because I believe it's just as important to understand what rights we have as cyclists as well as hoping to generate dialogue for fellow riders to think about, hoping nobody else comes across the same (or worse) experience.
Have been for the past 17 years. Your judgment of what speed I was traveling is clouded, since I made no mention of that in the original post. I was certainly responsible for making sure I can control whatever I can to make sure I'm safe at the end of the day, sure... but the fact you're considering this a non-standard situation is exactly whats garnering this discussion... because I believe it's just as important to understand what rights we have as cyclists as well as hoping to generate dialogue for fellow riders to think about, hoping nobody else comes across the same (or worse) experience.I never said it WAS the right approach (apologies if it sounded like I did), however it is what MOST people do. When I'm driving I always flick my head back before I turn to make sure this isn't happening. I bike defensively, I expect people to do things like this. Other riders should too. Not biking defensively is a good way to get hurt. That's why making eye contact is MANDATORY, like mentioned in the OP. If I hadn't made eye contact with the person, I would have stopped or ridden behind the person's car.
09-02-15, 04:30 PM
#21
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It's 'right turn on red AFTER STOP'. Did she come to a full stop? Did she look both ways to make sure she could turn right without danger to her or anyone else? If she didn't, she should be penalized.
If the WALK sign was white when you entered the X-walk, she should be penalized. JMO, of course.
If the WALK sign was white when you entered the X-walk, she should be penalized. JMO, of course.
09-02-15, 04:36 PM
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In that case the driver SHOULD have seen you, and the majority of the blame should be put on the driver. Notice I said the majority, not all. After all, you are responsible for YOUR own safety.
I never said it WAS the right approach (apologies if it sounded like I did), however it is what MOST people do. When I'm driving I always flick my head back before I turn to make sure this isn't happening. I bike defensively, I expect people to do things like this. Other riders should too. Not biking defensively is a good way to get hurt. That's why making eye contact is MANDATORY, like mentioned in the OP. If I hadn't made eye contact with the person, I would have stopped or ridden behind the person's car.
I never said it WAS the right approach (apologies if it sounded like I did), however it is what MOST people do. When I'm driving I always flick my head back before I turn to make sure this isn't happening. I bike defensively, I expect people to do things like this. Other riders should too. Not biking defensively is a good way to get hurt. That's why making eye contact is MANDATORY, like mentioned in the OP. If I hadn't made eye contact with the person, I would have stopped or ridden behind the person's car.
09-02-15, 04:37 PM
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Sue her ass. I got hit by a drunk woman and my lawyers got my **** on deck
09-02-15, 04:40 PM
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Your responsibility as a rider is defensive driving.
But, you had the legal right to cross the street with the cross walk, either steady or blinking. Turning vehicles have to respect the cross walk.
It is irrelevant what your plans were once you crossed the street as you were legally in the crosswalk at the time of the accident.
So, who is at fault?
But, you had the legal right to cross the street with the cross walk, either steady or blinking. Turning vehicles have to respect the cross walk.
It is irrelevant what your plans were once you crossed the street as you were legally in the crosswalk at the time of the accident.
So, who is at fault?
The driver - 100%
Could you have prevented the accident?Maybe. Watch cross traffic and turning traffic better.
As a pedestrian, I often cut between the 1st and second car in a line of cars (I never trust the first car to be paying attention to me)
Other Issues:As a pedestrian, I often cut between the 1st and second car in a line of cars (I never trust the first car to be paying attention to me)
It sounds like a design problem. You were apparently 100% invisible to the vehicle until you arrived at the crosswalk. Perhaps the wall should be cut shorter, back further from the intersection. Or, perhaps have NO TURN ON RED (or across a walk sign) at the crosswalk.
09-02-15, 04:54 PM
#25
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This is why I hate bicycle paths(not lanes) and sidewalks. I ride the roads like I own them and in reality, I do.