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Old 04-28-05, 03:45 PM   #1
mikev08826
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How do I know if my krypto lok is "bic proof?"

I've heard that they can be picked witha bic pen, well i'm trying to pick mine and i can't do it. How is it done?
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Old 04-28-05, 03:46 PM   #2
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Old 04-28-05, 03:54 PM   #3
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Seriously like Raiyn said...SEARCH function will amaze you..just put you up there like you just popped 2 beans haha...
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Old 04-28-05, 06:14 PM   #4
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Hi, I'm an aspiring bike thief with no computer skills. Will you instruct me how to use the search feature of your forum to learn how to defeat bike locks? THNX!!
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Old 04-28-05, 10:59 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanbikehouston
Don't worry about BIC pens. There is not ONE documented, proven case of a bike being stolen using a BIC pen. Why don't crooks use BIC pens? Because Kryptonite U-locks (other than the New York lock) have a design defect that allows a skilled crook to open one in under two minutes. A BIC pen is not always going to be the fast, and on many locks, won't work at all.

Actually I'm calling shenaniegans on this one. You have no way of proving that no bike has ever been stolen using a BiC pen because the theives RARELY LEAVE THE LOCK. Why leave evidence at the scene? Especially when you can ride for a few blocks and ditch the incriminating evidence in a trash can far away from the actual crime scene.
The BiC pen IS a threat in as much as the general public knows about it and the average jerk on the street can easily get a disposable pen. If questioned the guy only needs to respond "I lost my key and I heard about this on the internet.

In fact I can get a Old style Kryptonite open in less than thirty seconds so it's NOT the hardest method by any stretch as proven by the test results that YOU brought to the table.

Code:
I Have EVERY intent on reposting this every single time you claim the BiC problem is a hoax.
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Old 04-29-05, 11:32 AM   #6
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Alan - Do you have an opinion on the OnGuard Bulldog Mini u-lock? I'd be interested to hear what you think about it.
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Old 04-29-05, 11:50 AM   #7
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Alan - Do you have an opinion on the OnGuard Bulldog Mini u-lock? I'd be interested to hear what you think about it.
All of the OnGuard Mini U-locks are unbreakable by leverage and breaking attacks when they are correctly installed (around the rear wheel, just behind the seat tube). They are as strong against leverage attacks as the BEST lock sold in the USA, the Kryptonite New York 3000 U-lock.

But, the OnGuard design can sometimes make it difficult to engage its dual bolts. The bolts must be perfectly aligned with the "cuts" in the shackles for the key to turn easily. This problem varies lock to lock. I have one OnGuard Mini where the key turns easily...the other one is always a bit of a struggle to get the alignment that allows the key to turn easily. And, if you "force" the key, you could break it.

And, as mentioned in the "Flat Key" thread, all OnGuard and Kryptonite locks with the flat key design share an irritating quirk: if just one of the seven to ten plates inside the keyway goes out of alignment, you may be able to turn the key, but you will NOT be able to unlock your bike.

An easy fix: shine a light into the keyway, and use your key to turn each plate, one by one, until all ten are in perfect alignment...takes a few seconds with some practice. Then, insert the key until it presses firmly against the bottom of the keyway. When you turn the key, you will be able to unlock your bike.



How to CORRECTLY Lock a Bike: by Sheldon Brown

www.sheldonbrown.com/lock-strategy.html

Last edited by alanbikehouston; 05-02-05 at 09:52 PM.
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Old 04-30-05, 01:52 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanbikehouston
- Not one credible witness has ever reported seeing someone attempt to steal a bike using a BIC pen.
Since when do you have access to all the bicycle theft files for every jusidiction? Or access to anyones warranty claims information? Oh wait you don't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanbikehouston

- Not one police investigation has concluded that a BIC pen was used to take a bike (for example...the bike is gone, and left behind is a lock with a BIC pen sticking out of it.
Again where do you get your facts, Personally I wouldn't leave my "tool" for the cops to find. Much better to make the owner look stupid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanbikehouston

But, as with other internet myths, the one about BIC pens will last forever. Myths are always more interesting than the boring truth.
No myth Sparky http://www.snopes.com/crime/warnings/kryptonite.asp
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanbikehouston
And, as mentioned in the "Flat Key" thread, the new flat key design has a "flaw" that has more day to day impact on owners than the BIC deal ever did.
If you're too dumb to know that you should not to force a key in a lock I can't help you
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanbikehouston

The flat key design has seven to ten metal plates inside the keyway. All of them must be perfectly aligned. When one plate gets out of alignment with the others, your key will turn, but you will not be able to unlock your bike.
Insert and wiggle not a hard concept
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanbikehouston

THAT problem has an "easy" fix, but the existence of that problem has caused more than one person to wish they could "exchange" their NEW Kryptonite for their OLD Kryptonite.
Utterly laughable.
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Old 10-01-16, 08:55 PM   #9
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Way old thread but I wanted to chime in ( ding).

I don't have a bic pen to try this but I've seen a few videos, and while NOT one of them actually show the bic pen insert , close up camera, I could see it, given yes, lock makers ( haven't checked all of them, no time) are using flat keys it seems.

I find it unflattering that some here use special words to sum up their points and expect anyone to take them either seriously oh any level.

I'm disgusted frankly in the rhetoric I've seen in a few places that would make many a 'decent' person blush right off, - not that I suspect most guys would care ( girls maybe a few, but whatever).

I don't have a bic pen to even try this silly exercise, I wonder these days who does ? lol

I do know as has been said professionally and those people KNOW who they are, that a bicycle locked properly even with a non bic-pen proof lock is prob. not horribly likely to lose their bike.

I've seen plenty videos, again where no camera shows conclusively a bic pen did it but plenty of laughter of course , where a HUGE amount of force was usually used to get it to 'open'.

I tend to agree with alan* overall, that a thief would have to be not terribly bright &/or reeeeally patient ( are there any 'thieves' who are ??) to do so with the realization that a leverage-capable situation is going to present itself always and even then the odds of others not being 'around', and not seeing someone using a 'bic pen', to me seem rather low.

I'm not naïve, and I can yes see, how designers may have missed the simple rule but I've still yet to see a true camera shot.

If one is really worried about a bike being stolen, get a much cheaper bike ( but sturdy) and tons exist and ride that , or just lock up your bike as this forum has shown, its that simple.

No lock is safe if a thief is patient and really determined, but even those aren't going to get it done depending on how many are around, because chances are your average desperate thief isn't going to be real patient especially given a degree of force IS needed to get that done and it prob. would be obvious ( anyone have proof to the contrary I"d happily look) to someone nearby that this wasn't the original owner, and these days especially people are MUCH more likely to get involved and help out their neighbor.
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Old 10-01-16, 09:16 PM   #10
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The Bic pen method dates back to when Kryptonite and many other used the tubular key locks of a type patented decades back by the Chicago lock company. After all the press related to this issue, Kryptonite abandoned and recalled all locks with that keyway about 10 years ago.

So it's really very simple, if your lock has that kind of tubular key it may be vulnerable, if not, it isn't.
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Old 10-04-16, 02:18 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
The Bic pen method dates back to when Kryptonite and many other used the tubular key locks of a type patented decades back by the Chicago lock company. After all the press related to this issue, Kryptonite abandoned and recalled all locks with that keyway about 10 years ago.

So it's really very simple, if your lock has that kind of tubular key it may be vulnerable, if not, it isn't.
And to add to the confusion, Master Lock Street Cuffs STILL have locks that use a regular-style tubular key, but the lock design is essentially turned inside-out--and it isn't susceptible to the bic pen trick either.

Some people (who did not own one) insisted that it must be possible because the keys were the same so it must be the same kind of lock, but they were wrong. If you had both locks to compare yourself, you would see how they are different.

People claimed to have done it or to have seen somebody else do it, but nobody ever posted a video online showing Street Cuffs being picked with a bic pen, or any other similar device. And Master Lock never offered to refund or replace the locks, because they maintained all along that a bic pen wouldn't open them.

The first internet reports of the Kryptonite bic pen trick surfaced around late-2004. And some people [ahem] have continued to use their Street Cuffs regularly ever since, and still have every bike they locked up with them.

There is a video online now showing a guy picking some Street Cuffs with conventional locksmith picks. That was not part of the debate tho.
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Old 10-04-16, 10:31 AM   #12
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Other lock companies have since, invented even more complicated Key locks.

Axa of NL, & Abus , DE, for example.
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Old 10-04-16, 11:11 AM   #13
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For anyone questioning the competence of their bike lock, just leave it locked in a very public place for a few days. If upon your return, the bike is still there, you have a good lock.

Post your results here...
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Old 10-04-16, 11:50 AM   #14
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Just Expect the frame or the part that the lock is locked to is all that will be Left, all else Stripped.
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Old 10-04-16, 12:00 PM   #15
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I find it unflattering that some here use special words to sum up their points and expect anyone to take them either seriously oh any level.

I'm disgusted frankly in the rhetoric I've seen in a few places that would make many a 'decent' person blush right off, - not that I suspect most guys would care ( girls maybe a few, but whatever).
I find it "unflattering and disgusting"* that someone would be so outraged by comments on an eleven year old thread about a bike lock defect that they needed to dredge up this piece of ancient history.

* = hilarious
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Old 10-04-16, 05:09 PM   #16
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I find it "unflattering and disgusting"* that someone would be so outraged by comments on an eleven year old thread about a bike lock defect that they needed to dredge up this piece of ancient history.

* = hilarious
GIven nobody else had any problems and responded with maturity and sane comments, know this:

Your opinion of me, is NOT necessary, to my function.

THx ruth
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