spdracr39

Most groups are not like this but I won't ride with people I don't know and I certainly would not try to lead a group of strangers.

skye

It's the ones you don't see that'll kill you.

Maelochs

He didn't say "Only invisible vehicles were there."

This comes back to the bike-at-a-light scenario: At some point you are going to have to decide that you are competent to determine if it is safe to go.

If you really cannot tell if a car is coming, please, stay home, for your own good and the good of all of us.

Just kidding, sort of ... but yes, it is the car you don't see which kills you ... Which is why you Look Carefully and make sure there is no "car you don't see." If you cannot do this, you cannot safely ride or drive or even walk outside your home.

@WonderMonkey: I applaud you for taking the risk of running a ride with a group of strangers, and I am not surprised at how it went. I think you did a good job (based on what you say) and I hope if you ever do it again you enjoy it more. Smart ride leaders are always good to have.

Little Darwin

I saw a small group this summer (10-15 riders) that came to a busy intersection with a couple of 4 lane roads crossing, and simply blasted through as they turned left, through a RED LIGHT, after zipping past a couple of cars waiting for the light to change.. If the timing had been slightly different, there would have been several injured cyclists...

But, as for myself, I tend to not ride on the road much, except for a short section of my commute, and an occasional organized charity ride.

I do lead small groups on rail trails, etc. And I clearly explain to look out for, and be courteous to pedestrians and other riders. I have yet to get my slow riders on a road ride, but maybe this coming year, with some "rehearsal" to make sure that we do it safely. But, I know those that I am most concerned about wouldn't ride on the road anyway, so it would probably be a different make-up than on the trail rides.

no motor?

I gave up organized rides when I was a biker for similar reasons, and didn't expect things to be different with bicycles.

Gigglesnit

Around here that 'normal' would be spelled s-u-i-c-i-d-a-l. I rarely see cyclists dare our roads. When they do they wear the most appallingly bright colors they can get their hands on, they signal, they stop, and they know darn well that our motorists aren't used to navigating safely around cyclists, nor are our roads especially conducive to sharing. I hope nobody in your group ever rides here, I hate reading about fatal accidents.

Edit: I'm in SC, with NC a hop skip and a jump away. We both made the list. Not sure what is going on in Florida, but I think I'll warn family not to take their bikes over that way!

https://www.ibamag.com/news/the-10-mo...eed-16081.aspx

Maelochs

I often ride in Florida, and I guess people think I am dangerous. That explains it.

I mentioned elsewhere, I rode 15 years in the Greater Orlando area when it was voted the most dangerous cycling city in the nation (beams with pride at being so "special.") I don't know if people still throw things at, swerve at, or totally ignore anything not big enough to threaten vehicle damage, and generally think bicycles are for little kids in playgrounds only ... but I suspect so.

At least I can say for sure there is one less obnoxious rider up there (since I left.)

Just kidding. In reality ... I found that getting hit a few times will Really wake you up as to the benefits of following the rules even if no one else does. Even if the House always wins in the end, it pays to up the odds in your favor when you can.

bruce19

Would they also be the ones you don't see after you stop and start up again? I hate invisible cars.

SpeshulEd 

In my experience, I find people in a group often forget to look up the road to see what is coming...the less experience a rider is in a group, the more they tend to forget and the more they become fixated on the rider's wheel in front of them and have no idea that they need to be slowing down.

In this situation, it sounds like the guy knew that the stop sign was coming and was just expecting you to go through it. Hard to say. Every group I've ever ridden with usually slows for stop signs and red lights, always prepared to stop. The leaders usually then yell "clear" if there is no traffic, as the group goes through, they continue to yell "clear" down the line so everyone knows they can get through safely. A lot of this depends on group size. It's much easier to do when the group is smaller, but when you have a group of 20-30 people, it's hard to expect everyone to come to a complete stop at every stop sign as the group would break up over time, or would have to go drastically slow to keep everyone together.,

WonderMonkey

You are correct, he assumed I was going through. Based on the conversation with him after that he was looking up to see if any vehicles were coming, didn't see any, and planned on going through and made the assumption I was doing the same.

caloso

Even if you announce at the start that the group will be stopping at every sign and light, you still have to call SLOWING and STOPPING as applicable. Remind riders that they need to repeat the call so that riders in the back get the word too. Riders also need to call out cars and obstacles.

WonderMonkey

Good stuff, thanks. I always want to do my part and know/understand how the rides go. When on the bike path the group I normally goes with calls out those things just to communicate. Being a rookie I didn't associate. I do accept some of the responsibility for not know what is generally accepted. I still don't agree with a few "not uncommon" things that go on but I know more to expect next time. As I have mentioned I'll go as a road participant a few times before I even consider leading. Bike path I'm ok with already.

Fly2High

I live on Long Island where properties tend to be about .25 acre or somewhere in the neighborhood of 75-100 ft each way. A block therefore is rather short. With all the complaints about drivers speeding around, we tend to have a stop sign at EVERY INTERSECTION. Now imagine riding a bike in these neighborhoods. We would wear out our cleats in no time. By law, either on a bike or motorcycle, a complete stop is completed when a foot touches the ground and all motion stops. It seems to me that the more stop signs that are put in, the less people stop at them unless police are present and handing out tickets.

Before I joined a club, I only rode in my neighborhood. I would stop at every intersection and put a foot down. Once I joined a club, I have developed their bad habit of looking(and praying) and going through. At low use light controlled intersections, we have run red lights as well.

To me, many feel we are nothing more than pedestrians and some car drivers feel this as well. They often will stop when at a light or sign and wave us through. Some do not see us as a vehicle meant to be on the road following the same rules as cars and trucks. Ironically, how often do you hear of a cop giving out a ticket to a cyclist? Rare to say the least. Usually it will happen after a tragic death or complaint but otherwise, they look the other way.

The questions I have is if car owners behaved more like us, how would we feel? How would we feel if our kids were riding or walking in the area? How would we ride if the police handed out more tickets for the things we do wrong on the road?

Until something big happens, I do not see things changing....

Best of luck and stay safe.



Of course, I rarely see car drivers come to a full stop at nearly any stop sign. To me this should make us want to stop completely in fear of someone coming quickly through the intersection.

GovernorSilver

The group I ride with the most does this too. We also have calls for turns, when one or more fellow riders get left behind at a stoplight, when to double up, when to go single file, etc.

Kudos to the OP for giving it a try - sounds like you're taking notes. A well-organized group ride never puts the burden entirely on the ride leader - there are also assistants who help shepherd the group, make sure nobody gets lost or left behind, etc., with one of them being the "sweeper" who takes care of the stragglers in the back, just like in a hiking group.

And yes, this group does stop at every stop sign, all the more so because of a crackdown on cyclists blowing through stop sign intersections - it's a $91 ticket.

MMLC

I can tell you what is going on in Florida; Salmoning. I see it every day and can only shake my head.

Maelochs

i didn't even know there were salmon in Florida--fishermen there rave about redfish and snook.

Seriously though, I have to steal your sig.

SpeshulEd 

I don't know if I exactly trust a statistic put out by insurance companies who are trying to get me to buy insurance...but even if it is true, I would guess these statistics go hand in hand with the amount of car crashes (not accidents, we have plane crashes not plane accidents, most car crashes are not accidents, they're results of distracted drivers, but anyway)...it's more dangerous to ride a bike in these states because there are more car's crashing into cyclists. This isn't exactly the cyclists' fault.

The article also states that "no one is quite sure why these states rank as highly as they do in cyclist fatalities," - I have a pretty good idea why Arizona is on that list; no distracted driver laws, lax policing of road laws and speed limits, poor bicycling infrastructure. It's a lot easier to get hit on a 4 lane road, where everyone is traveling 15mph over the posted speed limit than on a road with protected bike lanes and drivers travelling at the posted speed.

Gigglesnit

I should say, that per million is kind of comforting regardless of the rankings. That's not that many people. It's just I always worry I'll be the unlucky one, hit by some drunk, texting, salmon-obsessed fool somewhere.

(search engines salmoning) oops! I was thinking the fish. You never know, though, Floridians do love their fishing. Even if they aren't catching salmon!

Maelochs

Urban Dictionary: Salmoning (Urban Dictionary: Salmoning)When you take your hand and wave it back and forth like a fish tale between a girls boobs.

I could see how 112 Floridians could get hurt every year for doing that.

Sy Reene

Good to see Idaho isn't on the list.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop

DrIsotope

I live my cycling life by the Idaho Stop.

DirtyThirty

I try to always follow traffic rules, but I will avoid being a sitting duck in the middle of the street whenever possible. This may include running a red light when I know I'm protected or rolling a stop sign if there are no cars present. There can certainly be exceptions to the rule in regards to safety.

skye

You are invariably safer *not* running a red light. smh

Maelochs

You are invariably overgeneralizing when you use words like "invariably" in this context. if I am at an intersection and can see for over a mile in every direction, and see that there are no cars, no driveways, no trucks, no motorcycles, no pedestrians, I scan overhead and see no helicopters or airplanes or parachutists, no alien spacecraft ... then it is equally as safe to go through the intersection regardless of what color the traffic light might be.

Just as it my be ridiculously dangerous to go through an intersection when the light is green.

Generally ... waiting for the red light is good manners ... but if there really is no one around ... why are you wasting precious life sitting there?

If you can tell when it is safe to proceed, you can proceed when it is safe. If you cannot tell when it is safe to proceed, stay on the couch. Traffic lights and road signs do not stop cars unless the cars hit the light pole or road sign (and often not even then.) If it is safe to go or not does Not depend on the light or sign.

How long would you sit at an intersection waiting for a turn arrow when you Knew you would not get a turn arrow until a car came up behind you? An hour? A day? What would be safe?

Please don't take any of this seriously ... I am in a mood because I am late for breakfast.

12strings

In my weekly group rides, I would say we generally DON'T stop at stop signs, but we DO slow down, look around, and call "clear"...we never just blow through it as though it doesn't exist.

If there is a car approaching the intersection at the same time, which only happens occasionally on our country rural roads, We will generally see it coming, and either slow down so that it's obvious to the car that they can get through before we get there, or if we are already there, most cars will wave us through (usually only 7-12 riders). I will say I think the motorists in my area are especially considerate of cyclists, and I have never had any problems.

I think it might be because they are so accustomed to waiting on slow tractors, and finding an opportune time to pass them...cyclists aren't much different. :-)