Jarrett2

Some retailers that sell bikes offer a return policy. In other threads there have been discussions on whether it is right or wrong to use these policies.

What is your take on using these written policies offered by the retailers? Is it ok? Is it bad to do? Is 30 days ok? 45? 100? 365?

Here are some of return policies for reference:

REI Help Center - 100% Satisfaction Guaranteed
We stand behind everything we sell. If you are not satisfied with your REI purchase, you can return it for a replacement or refund. Items must be returned within a year of purchase.

Performance Bike - Exchanges / Returns
We stand behind every product we sell. If an item does not meet your expectations, simply return it. We guarantee your money back for a full year.

Nashbar - 100% Customer Satisfaction
We stand behind everything we sell. If for any reason you are not satisfied with your purchase, upon receipt, simply return the item with proof of purchase and we'll replace it or give you a refund or credit your account for the item. (effectively forever)

Bikes Direct - Money Back Guarantee
We know you will be happy with your bike. If for any reason you are not*, let us know and we'll make it right or you may return it. Return it in original condition - new and packaged as you received *within 30 days of the purchase date for a refund or exchange

Lynskey - 100% SATISFACTION GUARANTEE
Our 100% Satisfaction Guarantee is an assurance that the item you receive is of the highest quality and meets all your expectations. You have a full 45 days from when you receive your Lynskey product to determine if you need to exchange or return it for any reason. Our Complete Satisfaction Guarantee applies to purchases made via Lynskey Performance factory direct.

Richardson Bike Mart (LBS) RETURN POLICY
New bicycles and non-sale merchandise may be returned (subject to the exceptions below), less a 10% restocking fee, within 30 days of the date of purchase for a refund, if the new bicycle or non-sale merchandise is in new, unused condition with tags attached and accompanied by the original sales receipt.

Maelochs

If you are returning the bike because you decided to buy a different bike ... whatever. I have already said enough.

If the bike Really doesn't fit (something which might not really show up until you have taken a few really long rides) or if it has any defect whatsoever, or if it is not the right size ... that's what the policy is for.

if you drop the bike and scratch it and decide to get a new one instead of paying for repairs ... whatever.

I think we all know the meaning of the term "in good faith."

stumpjumper2076

I see nothing wrong with returning a bike . They made their return policy and if I didn't like the bike I wouldn't hesitate to return it. Bike shops are a business not a charity .

RPK79

****

corrado33

So what would you think of someone buying a bike from REI, then 364 days later returning it/exchanging it for another, brand new one? For no reason other than to get another new bike after a year?

stumpjumper2076

That was not the question the OP was asking so your question is a red herring. I'm sure REI has taken that into consideration before making their policy . Do they think REi is stupid ?

Maelochs

I think they would be bound by law to take the bike back and replace it. Same with Nashbar. In fact there were a couple notorious threads a week or two ago byy a guy who did exactly that ... or rather, brought a bike back after something like 11 months so he could buy a different bike at a different shop, even though the first bike was very used and still in working order-- i.e. no legitimate reason to return it, yet the store was bound by its policy.

Most of those policies are written with the understanding that most buyers will act in good faith. If the balance shifted far enough the other way ... well, that's why Nashbar's and Performance Bike's policies are so rare and noteworthy.

fietsbob

REI, that's why You Join , it's a Consumer CoOp. one time fee for a lifetime.

& you get dividends based on what you bought, (not the company annual Profits, its not like being a stockholder )

I suppose you can Buy shares of Performance-Nashbar Inc. ask your Broker.. If they are trading on 'the Market'.

spdracr39

They make the policy and should have considered all the angles of how people would exploit it. If they have a problem with it they can change it for the future. I personally would not abuse it or try to use it to my advantage. If someone I know did I might think less of them but would not chastise them for playing by the published rules. It is up to the retailer to determine their business model and if they don't want people to use it then they should not allow it.

mconlonx

I'd utilize a return policy if it was appropriate, but I would not take advantage of it. For instance, if a mail order bike was the wrong size or style, or there was some legit issue only found out while riding it. Not because I just want a newer bike within a year...

At our shop, we encourage test rides, as many as a customer wants, to get them on the right bike and make a purchasing decision. But we don't accept returns...

shelbyfv

I can see returning a mail order bike after one or two rides if there is some issue of fit or function that could not have been foreseen. Can't think what that would be, right off, but it seems possible. On the other hand, IMO it is sleazy to use something and then return it just because you imagine you might want to try something different. I realize this attitude is a product of the culture in which I was brought up. Other folks apparently value or accept the concept of "getting over" on someone. Actual defective goods are another issue, of course.

pdlamb

+1 on the first two.

The last point is obviously not correct. That's why we have long internet discussions (and mandatory ethics training), a valiant attempt to teach people who either haven't learned, or would rather not have learned, the difference between right and wrong.

corrado33

I personally think that 30-60 days is a plenty long return policy. That gives even the most apprehensive person about riding their bike time to ride and test it. Anybody would know if it fits by then.

However, then you have to wonder about gifts bought a while in advance.

Sullalto

That's a bad reason. But that's also why you pay a markup at REI vs other brick&mortar or online shops. Lots of stuff at REI has a pretty hefty markup. I'm okay with it, because of the return policy.

FBinNY 

Unless there's something seriously wrong and not correctable, my take is that an ethical buyer will limit himself to a reasonably short time to decide if the bike is right or not.

Yes, satisfaction is guaranteed but you'd know if you were satisfied fairly soon, and should deal with it then, rather than riding a bike for months (while not happy with it) and then return it.

If I offered a return policy, it would be limited to a short time after you discovered the problem. If someone came back 6 months later (excluding winter months in the north) and said that they were unhappy, I'd ask them what the issue was, and why they didn't come back earlier.

MRT2

I made my position clear in the last thread. Though I can see scenarios where a person might use the return policy, maybe in the case of a lingering performance problem the service department failed to fix, or maybe where the buyer could not use the bike for a long period of time because of, say illness or injury, then discovered a problem.

But, IMO, I would say that returning an otherwise working but used bike 11 months in just to get something new, or different would be taking advantage.

OP has been surprisingly quiet since starting this thread. Jarrett2. You staked out a position in the other thread.

stumpjumper2076

Words in return policies are chosen very carefully and reviewed by lawyers if not written by lawyers. I'm sure REI knows what they are doing . If you think they haven't taken your point into consideration why don't you contact them and educate them on the matter.

FBinNY 

Yes, these policies are carefully considered. In the final analysis, the companies decide that the marketing advantage is enough to allow for those who might abuse the policy. But IMO they're not good for consumers. They create a situation where chiselers benefit at the expense of more reasonable consumers who don't take advantage of merchants.

It's not a question of legal language as much as people acting reasonably rather than abusing policies. However if someone does abuse the policy, then it's between himself and his image in the mirror, and not my problem. (though knowing someone did that might make me leery of doing any business with him).

dedhed

I'd think 6m - 1y on season type items is reasonable. I buy a bike on after season clearance (or skis/snowboard etc) and really don't have an opportunity to use them and find issues until the season rolls around again, which may be excess of 6 months in some locals.

stumpjumper2076

I don't disagree with your statement except for the part of it being bad for consumers. If a business sees that it is being abused by enough people they will change their policy. Each business determines what their own policy will be and if they are losing money with a certain return polcy I would certainly think they would change it . I don't buy new bikes so it is no concern to me what their policy is.

PepeM

Corporations never abuse loopholes within the law to their advantage and always act in good faith so I don't see why we as customers should do otherwise.

Jarrett2

How does this work? What is the expense incurred by "more reasonable consumers" when someone uses a return policy?

Jarrett2

While it may be surprising to you, its calculated on my part to keep the thread as unbiased as possible as we delve into this. I'm interested to see where it goes without my input for now.

Gresp15C

I would not abuse such a policy. On the other hand, strictly from a business standpoint, I know that they gain more in sales from having that policy -- since it increases buyer confidence -- than they lose in returns. Also, money back policies are to a certain extent dictated by the terms of the credit card companies.

But I think there are a lot of social arrangements that work pretty well, though it's possible for a few people to abuse them, and perhaps the cost of putting up with a small amount of abuse is preferable to constructing elaborate safeguards to make abuse impossible.

shelbyfv

I think most adults know right from wrong. Sometimes (when money is involved) it may be difficult to man up and do the right thing. When we do something we know is not quite right, that little voice of conscience starts nagging us. Then we get on the internet and rationalize in hope of finding comfort in numbers with others who share our flexible sense of ethics.