Originally Posted by JohnDThompson

UCLA Professor Donald Shoup agues that the abundance of mandated free parking "intended to alleviate congestion end up distorting transportation choices, debasing urban design, damaging the economy, and degrading the environment. Ubiquitous free parking helps explain why our sprawling cities suit cars more than people, and why American motor vehicles now consume an eighth of the world's oil production."

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/15/bu...view.html?_r=0

Originally Posted by hoodat

Face it; When we got our first drivers license we were almost all instantly addicted. I would drive all day going nowhere in particular, then sit around and ask people if anyone needed a ride - even total strangers. Anything for an excuse to drive. After a while driving lost its thrill And soon it was just another PITA we had to put up with.

Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest

Before I signed the papers to buy my car, I rode my bike to the dealership and put it inside the one in the showroom. Not only did it fit, but I didn't even have to take the wheels off.

It's a Subaru, so I'm probably not the first person to do that.

Originally Posted by hoodat

Face it; When we got our first drivers license we were almost all instantly addicted.

Originally Posted by 350htrr

T

EDIT: I seem to recall some PBS program I seen a few years ago that basically said some company (like GM) bought the trolley system in some city and scrapped it, so more cars could/would be needed...,

Originally Posted by big chainring

It's hard to ride a bike and eat at the same time. Driving and eating is considerably easier.

Originally Posted by big chainring

It's hard to ride a bike and eat at the same time. Driving and eating is considerably easier.

Originally Posted by mconlonx

No. We were enthralled. Overwhelmed by novelty. Not addicted.

Originally Posted by B. Carfree

I simply have to disagree. The median trip length in the US is just a few miles, so driving is most certainly not the only practical means of getting from point A to point B in most cases. (Please don't confuse "most cases" or even "many cases" with "all cases".) In many settings, a bicycle is even faster than a car. Over 60% of car commuters spend less than 30 minutes getting to work and the average distance, which is doubtlessly more than the median, is only 16 miles. These are trivial times and distances for any able-bodied person and certainly cannot explain why 86% of all commutes are by personal motor vehicle.

Originally Posted by B. Carfree

My preferred definition of an addiction is the one a drug treatment nurse once told me. An addiction, he said, is a habit that is destructive to oneself or society. Clearly, many of us have a habit of riding bikes. Just as clearly, this habit is not destructive to ourselves or society. Those people who choose to substitute a driving habit for cycling must consider the fact that driving is indeed destructive to oneself and to society in many ways.

Originally Posted by B. Carfree

I'm not arguing that there is no place for driving, only that the thoughtless use of cars, the habitual use, if you will, is indeed an addiction because of the damage this habit does.

Originally Posted by Mike Loveford

I can't call this an addiction. People choose what is more comfortable for them. But it's strange that people predominantly choose cars rather than bikes, because there are plenty of problems with acquiring of driving license to drive a car, thousands of tests that you must complete and so on. I failed my driving test for 3 times before i succeed. Though after second time i gone through some practice tests https://www.education4drivers.com/ (to make sure that my third time will be successful). Then i decided to buy a bike and this decision changed whole my life. So i don't understand why people have to drive a car.

Originally Posted by B. Carfree

I simply have to disagree. The median trip length in the US is just a few miles, so driving is most certainly not the only practical means of getting from point A to point B in most cases. (Please don't confuse "most cases" or even "many cases" with "all cases".) In many settings, a bicycle is even faster than a car. Over 60% of car commuters spend less than 30 minutes getting to work and the average distance, which is doubtlessly more than the median, is only 16 miles. These are trivial times and distances for any able-bodied person and certainly cannot explain why 86% of all commutes are by personal motor vehicle.

My preferred definition of an addiction is the one a drug treatment nurse once told me. An addiction, he said, is a habit that is destructive to oneself or society. Clearly, many of us have a habit of riding bikes. Just as clearly, this habit is not destructive to ourselves or society. Those people who choose to substitute a driving habit for cycling must consider the fact that driving is indeed destructive to oneself and to society in many ways.

I'm not arguing that there is no place for driving, only that the thoughtless use of cars, the habitual use, if you will, is indeed an addiction because of the damage this habit does.

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Most people do not Want to work at all to get to work, and most people see riding a bike as work.

Originally Posted by Mobile 155

Your passion is admirable but I doubt if there is even one person living in the US let alone the western world that doesn't understand they have choices. I cannot believe anyone that has any education at all doesn't know they can ride a bus, subway, Uber, bicycle or walk. No one put a gun to the 95 percent that have cars here. Are cars advertised and did companies spend money to advertise cars? Yes they did just like the do airlines, trains and buses. How much is spent on that advertising is based on a expected return and that is just how our system works.

I do not think for a moment that the car free all were MENSA qualified and everyone else went to learning challenged classes. Most if not all families have to decide what they value and what they want to spend their money on. From my use I always knew I could ride a bike to work or take a bus or ride a train. For years I did ride a bike but a time came when providing for my family was more important than riding a bike. More money ment more advantages for the people I love, better living conditions and better schools. Even the ability to pay for secondary education for my children.

The problem isn't that people are trapped or don't know they have alternatives they simply have picked the alternative that is the easiest for them. It is pretty much a given in a society like ours that if 95 percent of the population had picked taking the Bus then we would see buses more heavily subsidized. But they didn't. We as a society have tried bicycles, walking, street cars, buses, trains and the car. And like contest that is decided by a show of hands the one society wanted most was the one the got. Still all of the alternatives are still there and everyone still knows it.

Originally Posted by JohnDThompson

Possibly because that haven't tried it. Personally, I find riding my bike to work and errands to be cathartic.

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Most people do not Want to work at all to get to work, and most people see riding a bike as work. Really easy to understand. Most people do not want to work to go shopping, or to visit friends.

Also, I can assure you that unless you live in a gridlocked city (other than LA, where everything is o spread out a bike is worthless/dangerous) a bike is Not faster than a car. After a decade-and-a-half of cyclo-commuting I figured I average 15 on a bike and 45 in a car. Probably this was in part because to commute effectively ( left home just after dawn and didn't get back home until 10-11 p.m. after work, classes, and possibly a short visit with a friend or two) I had to carry so much gear--breakfast, lunch, dinner, wet-weather clothes, cold weather clothes (half the year) spare shoes, work clothes, a towel, a bunch of water, clean clothes for classes sometimes, plus pads, books, paper, tools, tubes and all that bike stuff ... On top of that I needed time to clean up and sometimes dry off (rain can suck; cold rain Really sucks) and if it was raining ai would sometimes bring extra cycling kit, because if a cold front pushed the rain out i didn't want to be cycling home at ten p.m. in 38-degree weather in wet cycling clothes.

I can tell you it took a lot of discipline to get up every day and get out there absolutely regardless of weather, fatigue , injury ... and to have to come home some days soaked in sweat, or drenched by rain, or freezing, and have to do bike repairs before going to bed because something broke. In bed by midnight, up before six to do it all again. Sunday to relax, Monday to do shopping/errands/laundry (all on the bike) and then Tuesday back to the 18-hour grind.

Most people do not Want to live that life. it wore me down after a while. Maybe if I worked somewhere with showers, lockers, and bike lockers, it might have been different. Probably if I just had to ride to work and ride home, it would have been different.

My preferred definition of an addiction is the one a drug treatment nurse once told me. An addiction, he said, is a habit that is destructive to oneself or society. Clearly, many of us have a habit of riding bikes. Just as clearly, this habit is not destructive to ourselves or society. Those people who choose to substitute a driving habit for cycling must consider the fact that driving is indeed destructive to oneself and to society in many ways.

All of that would have been So much easier if I had been driving.

So ... practical. yes, in terms of time and personal energy expended, in terms of having time to do more with life ... yes driving is more practical. If it were not for the fact that I loved cycling I wouldn't have lasted six weeks.

And most people do not love cycling.

No, driving is not an addiction. in this day and age where everything is a "disease" or an "addiction" and people are not held responsible for their choices ... some might argue that anything pleasurable is addictive. To me, the question determining addiction versus choice is, how much do you suffer when you quit?

Heroin and cigarettes are both addictive, in that the body will go through very real withdrawal symptoms when the addictive chemical is no longer supplied. Caffeine, to a lesser degree.

Wanting to do something over and over just because you like it is not addiction, it is choice, and if some people choose something which harms them, then it is a bad choice, but they can quit just by wanting to and doing it. I am a former cigarette smoker, so I am not just making stuff up here.

And even of that choice is damaging ... why does that make it an addiction? I used to drink, sometimes to excess, but I was never an alcoholic or even a regular drinker ... and sometimes I drank so much I hurt myself. Was I therefore addicted even though I might not drink again for a week, and might not drink a lot again for a month or two? Or was I just making occasionally bad choices?

Fact is, we licve is a physical setting designed around the use of the automobile. While it is possible to get by without a car, it is a lot harder, it takes a lot longer, and it is limiting. For instance, try dating on a bicycle. Try buying a stereo and a big-screen TV. try getting to work at a job where you are expected to wear a suit and tie, where there are no showers, and try washing up in a the bathroom after a fast 45-minute blast though 99-degree weather ... and try to look fresh when you go to the first meeting of the morning. it can be done, but it takes a lot more time and effort. (Shoot, it takes 30 minutes just to stop sweating hard after that. Which means, you have to get to work at least 35 minutes early, which further limits the time you have to do other things.)

i don't see where you have made the point that driving is an addiction. For most people it is indeed the most convenient option, and while automobile-generated pollution is a big issue, power plant pollution is bigger ... and do you know how much electricity it takes to make aluminum for our bicycle frames?

Originally Posted by avidone1

As for the definition of addiction, I believe addiction is basically an obsessive/compulsive type disorder. One obsesses about the activity and then does it even when they don't want to. By that definition ALL addictive behavior is essentially self destructive.

Originally Posted by rossiny

very thoughtful post. At this time in history it seems most people can not do with out a car. Granted ,, a few can that live and work n specific locations.

Originally Posted by 350htrr

Well, I can assure you, driving a car that has enough power (from a 4 banger) to spin all four wheels, and beat 8 cylinder "muscle cars" can be, "IS ADDICTIVE".

Originally Posted by tandempower

Addiction doesn't feel any different than normal everyday comfort. Smoking is just something you do, like going to the bathroom or tying your shoes. Try avoid going to the bathroom or walking around with loose shoe laces and fighting the urge to tie them. That's what smokers go through when they are trying to quit. When they finally give in and light up, it's such a relief. They can finally relax!

Giving up driving can be like this. It can feel like you're missing out on life or like you're doing too much work for too little gain, or that you shouldn't be sweating or cold to get from point A to B. These are just normal aspects of getting around without driving but to someone who has become psychologically dependent on driving as a transportation norm/entitlement, deviating from that feels as strange as walking around with loose shoe laces or not being able to find a bathroom when you really have to go.