fietsbob

After all Taxpayer , You Just Pay for It, the muzzle end points at You.

StanSeven

Do you have relatives now on federal land in Oregon?

1989Pre 

These are recreational cyclists who were not armed nor intent on doing harm. Therefore, your insinuation is impertinent.
Should they consider themselves lucky that the "marines" did not open fire?

FrenchFit 

Have you read the military regs.? Seizure of private citizen property is authorized in very limited circumstances, and my guess is the Marines exceeded their authority. Watch what happens, I suspect this base commander is going to get a slap on the wrist, and deposed in a civilian complaint. Confiscating property to assure private citizens pay tickets is not proper use of military force & enforcement. And, leaving them with a 2 mile walk back to civilization is a really stupid and dangerous idea, imho.

bakes1

You suspect? Do me a favor and post the link here confirming that when it happens lol.
You keep suspecting and guessing and I will keep commenting on exactly what was stated and quoted in the article.
But I guess you believe that not only did our U.S. marines overstep their bounds as far as confiscation is concerned you also believe they outright lied about the signage they said was present
If anyone was to do any educated guesswork btw it would be quite obviously that the marines probably looked the other way for a long time and issued a lot of warnings before they finally had to step in and take action.
I am confused though about your opinion on the bikers safety. You seem to side with them so maybe believe it is ok for them to ride their bikes there in safety but you then go on to say it is not safe for them to walk around there after the bikes are confiscated?
Hrmmm...

BlazingPedals

They were on a military base, and whatever California's laws you might think apply, don't.

FrenchFit 

Jeez - got reading comprehension?

Go read the US military regs. for yourself, they're on-line. Or, you can just keeping making uninformed comments I guess....

KingCat

There were NO signs in the area THESE cyclists entered. Have you ridden there ?

GP

Wrong. Yes.

GP

I recommend you stick to discussing topics that you have at least a minimum of knowledge about. From reading your previous posts, I can't think of what that might be but I know it's not cycling or law.

bakes1

Still waiting for your explanation as to why you believe the cyclists were safe to ride unsupervised in a military facility but unsafe to walk out of it under supervision?

Cptimagine

Swatara state park just east of the Gap has many miles of trails as do the mentioned areas north known as St Anthonys wilderness . That,borders 40,000 acres of Pa. Game Lands, hard saying where you were .

BillyD

The tone is getting a little too personal and insulting in here. Please tone it down.

kevindsingleton 

Yes. It's always lucky when the Marines do not open fire in your direction.

TMonk

*DISCLAIMER I realize that what I am about to post warrants some discretion, and could compromise my legal position. Having said that, I'm not interested in anything other than full honest and compliance with the law*

They took my bike, on new years eve, at about 11:00AM. Needless to say, I had a few to drink that night

The damage:
Confiscated bike, title (1385?, too lazy to look at the citation atm) for trespassing on federal property. The marines were polite and cordial, not really rude at all. There was a little bit of loud voiced, puffy-chested flexin' (as I like to call it), but that lasted all of 30s as they could tell I wouldn't be any trouble. The max fine is $500 with potential misdemeanor charge; I will not be able to retrieve the bike until the case is closed. I went to a SDMA meeting about the subject a couple of weeks back, and spoke personally with the CO of Miramar Air Base, SDMBA board of directors, a couple lawyers, and a few other riders. It sounds like if I at least show up to court, the judge will knock of any criminal charges, and lower the fine on a discretionary basis. We may get a lawyer to go in a represent a bunch of us in one fell swoop for a minimal fee.

My take:
I just think that it's a little unfortunate the way that everything happened. I completely understand the temporal and financial strain that it puts on the base when they need to shut down the firing range; that is probably hugely frustrating to the the CO. The boys need to work. As a matter of fact, the CO is a mountain biker himself, and chose to implement the bike confiscation policy after other less severe measures weren't working.

I am going to play the naive card here a little bit - I'm a competitive road and track cyclist, not much of a mountain biker. It was my third time in the area, the first two being led by groups of experienced mountain bikers. Of course I saw the signage; I'm not stupid or blind, but I followed them in and figured it wasn't of practical concern due to some sort of sheep or herd like psychology, like the hundreds of other riders who go through there each weekend. What happened is totally my fault, and I accept that. At this point my agenda is damage limitation (financial and criminal), and telling everyone I know in the community not to go there, although that word has clearly gotten out.

From a longer term perspective, it's tough because there are so many good trails that go through Sycamore Canyon and the surrounding areas - that are all private or military property. Even as you go north and east of the Santee Lakes, where the really good stuff is, the property is Pardee Homes and other developers property, not public land. The long and the short of it is that SDMBA doesn't want anyone riding north of the 52, period. They are working on getting easements and public trails set up, but that takes a while. It's such a shame because there are trails and riders who have been riding and maintaining trails out there for decades. Due to increased military security in these times, and increasing numbers of riders on the trail, the area is going to have to collect dust and the trails will deteriorate, unfortunately.

Although I'm not that huge into mtn biking, I may chose to become an SDMA member, donate and be a little active about establishing legal trail usage in the area going forward. This was the best place to ride mtb without driving to leave the greater San Diego area IMO, and I'm interested in helping establish safe and legal access for all.

kevindsingleton 

Thanks for chiming in. I think that clears up everything.

TMonk

I'm happy I could help. That's my intention here.

Here's the take away: San Diegans, don't ride north of the 52! Just don't do it.

fishboy316

Follow the rules or pay the price! Sorry... The last thing I want to do is wander onto a U.S. Military base. I have seen these guys in action and I don't want any part of it! LOL

billd76

iMichaux is awesome for cycling and motorcycling!! Followed by dinner at hauzers winery!!

indyfabz

+1. The likely event of an outcome unfavorable to you is too high.

redcon1

TMonk, it's good to hear straight from rider involved in the incident. Best of luck in your quest to make more trails safely available to riding.

TMonk

Glad that I could help, and thanks for the good luck wish.

avidone1

I suspect that this was a well thought plan, professionally executed and that the base commander won't hear a word about it. I further suspect that he took these measures and sought publicity for it, to "make examples" of those involved. I further further suspect that said base commander decided on this course of action because of repeat violations from mtbikers. Now that he's made his point that he means business, I further further further suspect that this will all quietly go away. No criminal charges, small fines, and bikes returned. The CO did what he had to do to run his base and train his troops.
PS, I'm glad the thread turned into a love in

TMonk

^
yep.

bakes1

Hrmmm...
Where did all the 'no signage' authority hating, US marines are lying, 4th amendment experts go?