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Beginners tips for increasing average speed.

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Beginners tips for increasing average speed.

Old 01-25-16, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnyvincent
Maybe I should look into local riding clubs? At first I didn't think I'd be into that kind of thing, but it is starting to seem like it makes sense to help push myself harder.
I did a group tour this summer. I have never pushed so hard for so long. I was terribly afraid of getting dropped (which still happened ) but i had never dreamed I could ride so hard as I did just to avoid the embarrassment of getting dropped.

Terrible motivation, terrible psychology ... but I find riding solo that I cannot come close to that kind of effort. So, yes, group rides can help. When you get dropped, oh, well, but if you are like me, some days you will hit a level you thought was impossible to even approach (and still be off the back ... )

Don't do it if it isn't fun. But don't be afraid to try it.

I'd tell you how much better than me you are doing, and in so much less time ... but i hardly think you want to use me as a standard. You seem to be doing really well, and after only a month? I should be asking You for training tips.
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Old 01-25-16, 02:16 PM
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In college I used to regular work with friends who had issues going any decent speed on their bike. We were all broke college students. But these are the things I would check that were the most important:

1. Seat Height. With your seat to low you are significantly less efficient, and it's significantly harder to increase the speed you can bike at because you're using much less powerful muscles in your legs to pedal with. (Often this could be fixed by raising the seat, but sometimes the entire bike was to small).

2. Brakes Rubbing on Wheels. If your rim brakes are rubbing on the wheel, you lose a huge amount of power, which (if they're rubbing but not that much) you don't even notice except that you're noticeably slower than everyone else. It's easy to test - pick up each wheel and spin it (for the rear wheel spin it opposite the direction that make the pedals turn). The wheel should spin minimum 3 times before stopping. If it spins less than that take a look at the brake pads and see if they're rubbing against the wheel when the wheel goes around.

3. Knobby Tires. They're slower than slicks, even fat slicks are better than knobbies.

#1 in particular (seat height) makes it really difficult to increase your speed by riding.
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Old 01-25-16, 07:45 PM
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All this talk of riding faster left me wanting to push myself this afternoon due to the nice weather out. I took some pointers that I read here and taking into account the comment about varying intensity, I decided to only do a half hour instead of my usual 1+ hour, but to ride at a higher intensity.
I was able to maintain and average of exactly 15.00MPH for 32 minutes, which seems like a big improvement over my first week or so of riding. I also noticed that I was able to bend my elbows and crouch into a more aerodynamic position and maintain a speed of over 17MPH with about the same effort it takes to maintain 15-16mph in an upright position, so that's another pointer I will definitely be using!
I'm going to try riding at that speed for longer and longer until I can easily maintain a full hour, then try to up it even more.

I read a lot of advice, but it seems like the main thing you guys are telling me, in a nutshell, is what one poster said: "ride more"...sound about right?
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Old 01-25-16, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnyvincent
This is exactly where I want to be. I think I would feel accomplished if I could up my average to 17mph. About how long did that take you?
I'm on a flat bar road bike with 28c tires, so it's pretty quick but you really do start feeling some wind resistance once I get it to around 16mph. I still feel like I should be able to average 17mph on it though


That's a really good point. I think you may be spot on with that. I notice my 14mph days are always after I've gotten in two days off. I also notice that I'm going for a high average speed every ride instead of taking it easy some days. I will make it a point to vary my intensity more.




The problem is it's a flat bar road bike. I'm already thinking about the possibility of purchasing a road bike and using it for group rides and keeping the flat bar for everyday riding, since I didn't pay much for it.
Riding 5-6 days a week and averaging about 15-20 miles per ride I got to an average speed of around 17 mph after about 10 weeks. But I was pushing pretty hard all the way on every ride and like I said I sprinkled in some 25 - 30 milers.
6 months later though I only average just over 18 mph so I definitely mini peaked early I would guess.
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Old 01-25-16, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob
bend way over to reduce your bodies air resistance (2x speed = 4x air resistance)
Well, that'll work; but at 14 mph, aero isn't what's holding him back. What he really needs is to get stronger.

I'd recommend sprint intervals. Go ALL OUT for 30 seconds, then coast/pedal easy for a minute or two until you're recovered and repeat. Don't watch the average speed for the ride, it'll be low. Start with 3 or 4 sprints, then gradually increase the number of intervals you do in a ride as you're able. Once you get the number of intervals up to maybe 10, drop the number of sprints in a ride, but increase the length to a minute. On off-days, ride at an easy pace that feels like there's no load on your legs. Do that for a month, then try your 'tempo' ride again. I bet it'll be a bunch faster.
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Old 01-26-16, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by BlazingPedals
Well, that'll work; but at 14 mph, aero isn't what's holding him back. What he really needs is to get stronger.

I'd recommend sprint intervals. Go ALL OUT for 30 seconds, then coast/pedal easy for a minute or two until you're recovered and repeat. Don't watch the average speed for the ride, it'll be low. Start with 3 or 4 sprints, then gradually increase the number of intervals you do in a ride as you're able. Once you get the number of intervals up to maybe 10, drop the number of sprints in a ride, but increase the length to a minute. On off-days, ride at an easy pace that feels like there's no load on your legs. Do that for a month, then try your 'tempo' ride again. I bet it'll be a bunch faster.

This sounds like it would work really well. I'm definitely going to try this for a month starting tomorrow. I think right now if I go all out I could probably sustain 20mph+/- for 30-60 seconds, so if I got to where I could maintain something like that for any length of time that would be amazing.
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Old 01-26-16, 09:12 AM
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Fix your medical problems first? 1 month? Come back here after a year. Are you racing? Need for speed? I do more mt biking and commuting, group/road rides, not so much. Try to do some 4 hr rides, or 6 hr ones. At 3/4 effort. Then do some hill repeats and sprints. Do any cross training/ general exercise? Yoga, swimming, walking, trail work all count in my book.
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Old 01-26-16, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnyvincent
This sounds like it would work really well. I'm definitely going to try this for a month starting tomorrow. I think right now if I go all out I could probably sustain 20mph+/- for 30-60 seconds, so if I got to where I could maintain something like that for any length of time that would be amazing.
30 second intervals don't work well except for making you faster 15-30 seconds at a time because they're powered mostly by your phosphocreatine energy system and type iix fast-twitch muscle fibers with relevant to speed after a minute.

7-10 minute intervals as hard as possible will do the most for VO2max (a few minutes) and lactate threshold (past an hour).
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Old 01-26-16, 10:00 AM
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Yest o all the other stuff, aerodynamics, cadence, etc., hills will make you strong.

John
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Old 01-26-16, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt
30 second intervals don't work well except for making you faster 15-30 seconds at a time because they're powered mostly by your phosphocreatine energy system and type iix fast-twitch muscle fibers with relevant to speed after a minute.

7-10 minute intervals as hard as possible will do the most for VO2max (a few minutes) and lactate threshold (past an hour).
I'm just saying, I don't think "don't work well" is the consensus. Here's one link from google:
5 Cycling Workouts That Will Help You Get Fast Quickly : This Is Gonna Hurt | Bicycling
...Even 20- to 30-second micro-intervals have been shown to increase V02 max, burn fat, and improve endurance...

Other articles talk about longer time periods, but customized to your fitness level and genetics:
Interval Training | Bicycling

The way these things always go is, someone say "30 second intervals help with training", then other people go waaaaaaaaay overboard and make it into this big thing where they claim it's the only way to do it, when the original thing said "this is one of many options that can help" or "it's a good place to start".

But I think for someone who's not in good shape to begin with, 30 second intervals can definitely be a good place to start in improving speed.
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Old 01-26-16, 12:35 PM
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I would not recommend high intensity training to a rider who's only been riding for a month and who currently rides for only an hour or so. The potential for injury or burnout is too high.
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Old 01-26-16, 12:46 PM
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Well, I guess all exercise tips are given with the assumption that the OP won;'t be exceedingly foolish and hurt him-/herself. Short intervals are good for building cardiovascular, lung, and recovery abilities. Longer intervals at varying intensities in various gears build those same things, but focus more on building different muscle groups as well. Longer rides at a higher cadence builds aerobic and CV .... and squats build muscle.

more than one way to get from here to "faster," and usually a combination of ways works.

And if a person so desires, s/he could hurt or even injure him/herself quite badly by exercising wrong. I think we all assume the person is smart enough not to ... otherwise the only really reasonable advice would be "Put on your helmet and crawl back into bed."
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Old 01-26-16, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
Well, I guess all exercise tips are given with the assumption that the OP won;'t be exceedingly foolish and hurt him-/herself. Short intervals are good for building cardiovascular, lung, and recovery abilities. Longer intervals at varying intensities in various gears build those same things, but focus more on building different muscle groups as well. Longer rides at a higher cadence builds aerobic and CV .... and squats build muscle.

more than one way to get from here to "faster," and usually a combination of ways works.

And if a person so desires, s/he could hurt or even injure him/herself quite badly by exercising wrong. I think we all assume the person is smart enough not to ... otherwise the only really reasonable advice would be "Put on your helmet and crawl back into bed."
I agree fully .... I have only been riding for 4 months and cycle 5 days in a row .... ride fast (high cadence) for half the distance, and the other half, use a lower cadence with a harder gear to build leg strength

I have managed to get fairly fit, and have seen a huge improvement in a short period

also, no need to join a cycling club or group ride .... sign up to Strava, and every ride becomes a race against your personal best, and others who have cycled the same route, on the same day, same week, or all time
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Old 01-26-16, 01:06 PM
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it takes a year of daily riding just to get your body used to riding. the gains come year 2. that being said, reread this thread in september after an entire spring and summer of riding. you will be amazed. It happens on its own, training this early will get you some gains, but focus this year on the base, and you should be good to go for next years hard training.
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Old 01-26-16, 01:08 PM
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"Ride lots." Eddie Merkz
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Old 01-26-16, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
Well, I guess all exercise tips are given with the assumption that the OP won;'t be exceedingly foolish and hurt him-/herself. Short intervals are good for building cardiovascular, lung, and recovery abilities. Longer intervals at varying intensities in various gears build those same things, but focus more on building different muscle groups as well. Longer rides at a higher cadence builds aerobic and CV .... and squats build muscle.

more than one way to get from here to "faster," and usually a combination of ways works.

And if a person so desires, s/he could hurt or even injure him/herself quite badly by exercising wrong. I think we all assume the person is smart enough not to ... otherwise the only really reasonable advice would be "Put on your helmet and crawl back into bed."
Based on my experiences with enthusiastic newbies, I would not make that assumption.
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Old 01-26-16, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by BlazingPedals
Well, that'll work; but at 14 mph, aero isn't what's holding him back. What he really needs is to get stronger.

I'd recommend sprint intervals. Go ALL OUT for 30 seconds, then coast/pedal easy for a minute or two until you're recovered and repeat.
Personally, I think you should have plenty (like six months worth) of miles behind you before you start working on intervals. Otherwise you risk putting the cart before the horse.

I agree it isn't aerodynamics holding him back. It sounds like his fastest days come after rest days and his slowest days come after fast days; he needs to build fitness, and probably more time for recovery.

Originally Posted by vinnyvincent
This sounds like it would work really well. I'm definitely going to try this for a month starting tomorrow. I think right now if I go all out I could probably sustain 20mph+/- for 30-60 seconds, so if I got to where I could maintain something like that for any length of time that would be amazing.
They're called HIIT or High Intensity Interval Training, and not for nothing. You should not be doing high intensity every day for a month. If you're doing intervals, you should be doing occasional rest days. You're going to burn out otherwise.
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Old 01-26-16, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch
Probably.

The mistake most folks who wanting to go faster make is doing the same workout day after day. You need hard days to break your body down followed by easy days to allow it to build itself back up. Most riders don't try hard enough on the hard days and go too hard on the easy days.
I really dig this answer. It is very true for my training last year.

Originally Posted by chasm54
A month at 60-80 miles a week is hardly any time on the bike, you're not going to see substantial improvements until you've put in way more time than that.
Don't forget he said that he has been riding for a month. It takes years and yeah, like you said, a crap ton of miles to dramatically increase your average speed.

My best advice is to go on really long rides. Get that strength and endurance up. 100km+ rides help me a lot for my daily 21km commutes.
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Old 01-26-16, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnyvincent
I read a lot of advice, but it seems like the main thing you guys are telling me, in a nutshell, is what one poster said: "ride more"...sound about right?
Yep.

Originally Posted by caloso
I would not recommend high intensity training to a rider who's only been riding for a month and who currently rides for only an hour or so. The potential for injury or burnout is too high.
I second that emotion.
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Old 01-26-16, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
Every exercise you do has a benefit and it also has a cost.
Originally Posted by kevindsingleton
That's what I tell the wife about my 12 oz. curls!
Sure, but it's more than that.

You heard you should work out for at least a half hour, as hard as you can, so that you can barely have a conversation above the gasping for air. To the point that you'll have trouble standing up when it's done. Why do you think people don't just do a workout like that every day, maybe once in the morning and once in the evening? Because they can't.

Exercise stresses your body in different ways. For example when you go all out, you're using lots of glycogen to make your muscles work; it's not the best thing for them, and it's also the only fuel your brain can use. When you run out, it takes a while to produce more. That's what it means to "bonk" or "hit the wall." It's also why intense rides make you really hungry, your body wants what it needs to replenish your glycogen stores. Longer but less intense rides can make your legs do the same amount of work, but more slowly so you're mostly burning fat instead.

After exercising, you don't have as much energy, and your body needs time to repair the damage you've done, and to get stronger as a result of it. The more intense the exercise, the more time you need for recovery.

Long, moderate intensity rides will also make your legs and your heart and your lungs stronger. They'll do it at a lower physiological cost than just going all out.
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Old 01-26-16, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Leebo
Fix your medical problems first? 1 month? Come back here after a year. Are you racing? Need for speed? I do more mt biking and commuting, group/road rides, not so much. Try to do some 4 hr rides, or 6 hr ones. At 3/4 effort. Then do some hill repeats and sprints. Do any cross training/ general exercise? Yoga, swimming, walking, trail work all count in my book.
I guess you could say it's more of a "need for speed" thing. I have no intention to race. Just to challenge myself and I think it's cool to ride around the neighborhood at close to the same speed as cars.


Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt
30 second intervals don't work well except for making you faster 15-30 seconds at a time because they're powered mostly by your phosphocreatine energy system and type iix fast-twitch muscle fibers with relevant to speed after a minute.

7-10 minute intervals as hard as possible will do the most for VO2max (a few minutes) and lactate threshold (past an hour).
I might try that as well as the 30 second high intensity intervals. From what I'm reading, it seems like I need to work on all around performance.
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Old 01-26-16, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
Sure, but it's more than that.

You heard you should work out for at least a half hour, as hard as you can, so that you can barely have a conversation above the gasping for air. To the point that you'll have trouble standing up when it's done. Why do you think people don't just do a workout like that every day, maybe once in the morning and once in the evening? Because they can't.
Actually, "as hard as you can", "barely have a conversation", "gasping for air", and "having trouble standing up" are what 12 oz. curls are all about!
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Old 01-26-16, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnyvincent
I guess you could say it's more of a "need for speed" thing. I have no intention to race. Just to challenge myself and I think it's cool to ride around the neighborhood at close to the same speed as cars.

I might try that as well as the 30 second high intensity intervals. From what I'm reading, it seems like I need to work on all around performance.
I read an article, this morning, that suggested that you should ramp up to high intensity training so that your connective tissue can build up the strength to keep your muscles and joints tied together. If you dive in, too quickly, you could tear a tendon or ligament, which could put you on the bench for days, weeks, or months. According to the article, you should slowly build your intensity (whether it's sprinting on the bike or lifting heavy weights), so that you give the connective tissue time to get stronger, before applying all the strength that your muscles can supply. Ease into it, is what the article recommends.
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Old 01-26-16, 10:56 PM
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1. Recovery time (as in sometimes you just need more than a day or even two), 2. cadence, 3. you're not going to make huge improvements in a short amount of time.

Last summer, I rode my bike across Canada. 74 days in total. I live in the prairies, and even though I put on 1500+ kms pre tour, I was not ready for Mountains or even bigger hills. I was one of the slowest at the beginning of the tour, and I remained one of the slowest at the end of the tour. We all got stronger together. BUT, I am way better now than I was last June at the start! My simple point is it takes time to increase average speed. You might also consider different roads, and same distances, rather than travelling the same roads. Monotony is a killer. Cadence is critical, as that is the only real "tool" that you can use on the rode to kick you in the butt. Recovery time. Same as weight lifting. It used to be- Upper body one day, lower body next day. Usually, that works, but not always, and you must listen to your body. The other part of recovery is, using a heart monitor when you're exercising. If you are an average guy like me, when you are exercising, you should get your heart rate to about 140 and keep it there while you're working out/riding. If you're struggling to keep it there, or get it there, chances are that you are not sufficiently recovered. STOP! This is where you have to listen to your body. Take another day off. I have had times where I was 4 days in rest mode. (not very often, but it happens) But come the 5th day, look out! Suddenly someone lit a fire under yer saddle! Quit beating yourself up!
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Old 01-27-16, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
Well, I guess all exercise tips are given with the assumption that the OP won;'t be exceedingly foolish and hurt him-/herself. Short intervals are good for building cardiovascular, lung, and recovery abilities. Longer intervals at varying intensities in various gears build those same things, but focus more on building different muscle groups as well. Longer rides at a higher cadence builds aerobic and CV .... and squats build muscle.

more than one way to get from here to "faster," and usually a combination of ways works.

And if a person so desires, s/he could hurt or even injure him/herself quite badly by exercising wrong. I think we all assume the person is smart enough not to ... otherwise the only really reasonable advice would be "Put on your helmet and crawl back into bed."
You seem to assume that beginners know how to train intelligently. They don't. It isn't obvious to a beginner that they are going too hard, with too little recovery, because they feel good at the time and the consequences in terms of fatigue, slow progress, discouragement etc. take time to develop. The sensible advice to give someone who has been riding for only a month and doing very modest mileage is @caloso's. "Ride more." When the OP has done a couple of thousand miles or so he can start thinking about high-intensity intervals.
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