Road riders: Managing leg cramps?
02-27-18, 04:16 PM
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I've had cramping at the worst times when out on the bike. In the colder weather it was even worse. I started to take note of the things I consumed, the nutrition that was being delivered, & the amount. Normally in the warmer weather about 15g to 25g of protein twice or three times a day was my daily intake. When bicycling, the largest muscles, the leg muscles work overtime. With proper amounts; Water helps deliver the oxygen to where the recovery/growth is taking place, but without the ammo of protein it cannot execute the mission.
Iron helps the blood absorb the protein in order for the veins to push the nutrition throughout the channels.
Water, protein, & iron.
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02-27-18, 04:35 PM
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Since sugar is definitely in the Gatorade that has been previously noted I would think the primary differentiator is the Creatine. I have tired that in the past but not for the cramps per se so I will try that myself.
03-01-18, 12:32 PM
#79
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When I read your first post, I had to double check to make sure I hadn't posted it myself. When you revived it, I thought maybe I had an alternate personality. My first two years of riding were cramp free, all the way through 60-70 mile rides. Suddenly during year three, I couldn't get over 30-35 without debilitating cramps. Over the years I have tried most of the stuff in this post, some with minimal success, and some with better results. While I have not completely figured out the problem, my current method is this: I usually start preloading electrolyte pills (Endurolytes) the night before and try to take two per hour during the ride. I pay special attention to my hydration to make sure I am drinking on time throughout the ride. I eat gels/bars/bananas, etc. often. I use Heed in one bottle, and make a bottle of stopslegscramps.com apple cider vinegar and water. This has produced the best result but I still cramp at 75+ miles. Last year, I think I cried for the full 20 mile finishing segment of a fairly flat century. I was solo, making good time, and fed up enough to force myself to finish without stopping. I don't have much advice to offer, other than the apple cider vinegar concoction has made the most difference for me. No electrolyte supplement, hydration plan, food plan, or any other physical pinpoint alone has made much of a difference.
That said, I've seen a few new things here that I haven't tried yet. Worth a shot.
That said, I've seen a few new things here that I haven't tried yet. Worth a shot.
03-01-18, 05:07 PM
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sweat more than others, some people cramp more than others. l don't think not being in shape has anything to do
with it.
03-01-18, 05:41 PM
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And I'll disagree with this statement. Fatigue (poor fitness) can be a contributing factor in cramping. As well as a plethora of other factors. I will agree some people are more predisposed to cramping and hydration is important.
03-01-18, 10:57 PM
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For me, switching to clipless road bike shoes with rigid soles, and switching saddles, helped reduce my foot and thigh cramps while riding.
I still get cramps at night, especially the arches of the feet. Have had for years. Stretching helps relieve those attacks.
The only cramps I've ever experienced from dehydration or lack of electrolytes are abdominal. Those attacks always occurred on relatively cool and overcast days, probably because I underestimated how much water I needed. So I add electrolytes to at least one water bottle for every ride, and drink it all during the ride. In warmer weather I'll usually keep plain water in the second bottle so I can also use it to squirt on my head, face and body.
The foot and thigh cramps occurred toward the end of fairly hard, fast rides, usually after about 30-40 miles, especially when standing to climb or sprint. At the time my road bike still had platform pedals and an ill-fitting saddle.
I've always experienced foot spasms, since childhood, when exercising and need arch supports just to walk in any shoes. Switching from soft soled Merrell cycling/walking shoes and platform pedals to Scott road shoes and Look pedals/cleats immediately relieved the arch spasms. Occasionally, as soon as I stop to rest and remove the shoes, the arch spasms occur. So the rigid support really helps.
It occurred to me the thigh spasms may have been related to the ill-fitting saddle, a Turbo style with a bit of up-flare in the back and a little too wide. It wasn't uncomfortable so much as lacking a sweet spot where I could plant my butt and not scoot around constantly. I was constantly scooting forward to ride the nose for seated sprints and climbs, then pushing myself back. I was expending a lot of energy just scooting around on the saddle. Toward the 30-40 mile mark my legs were shot. I couldn't stand to climb without spasms.
About a month ago I switched to a flatter saddle with longer nose, only 130mm wide, with fairly little padding -- it's a Selle Italia pretty comparable in design to the Fizik Antares. No more scooting around. I just plant my butt and it finds the sweet spot every time. I feel stronger after 20-40 miles, can still stand to climb even though I'm not a strong climber.
I am feeling a bit of a twinge at the front/top of the patella after a longer ride -- relieved when I scoot forward just a smidge on the nose -- so I may need to scoot the saddle slightly forward. But otherwise it's been terrific and a significant factor in reducing thigh cramps/spasms.
I still get cramps at night, especially the arches of the feet. Have had for years. Stretching helps relieve those attacks.
The only cramps I've ever experienced from dehydration or lack of electrolytes are abdominal. Those attacks always occurred on relatively cool and overcast days, probably because I underestimated how much water I needed. So I add electrolytes to at least one water bottle for every ride, and drink it all during the ride. In warmer weather I'll usually keep plain water in the second bottle so I can also use it to squirt on my head, face and body.
The foot and thigh cramps occurred toward the end of fairly hard, fast rides, usually after about 30-40 miles, especially when standing to climb or sprint. At the time my road bike still had platform pedals and an ill-fitting saddle.
I've always experienced foot spasms, since childhood, when exercising and need arch supports just to walk in any shoes. Switching from soft soled Merrell cycling/walking shoes and platform pedals to Scott road shoes and Look pedals/cleats immediately relieved the arch spasms. Occasionally, as soon as I stop to rest and remove the shoes, the arch spasms occur. So the rigid support really helps.
It occurred to me the thigh spasms may have been related to the ill-fitting saddle, a Turbo style with a bit of up-flare in the back and a little too wide. It wasn't uncomfortable so much as lacking a sweet spot where I could plant my butt and not scoot around constantly. I was constantly scooting forward to ride the nose for seated sprints and climbs, then pushing myself back. I was expending a lot of energy just scooting around on the saddle. Toward the 30-40 mile mark my legs were shot. I couldn't stand to climb without spasms.
About a month ago I switched to a flatter saddle with longer nose, only 130mm wide, with fairly little padding -- it's a Selle Italia pretty comparable in design to the Fizik Antares. No more scooting around. I just plant my butt and it finds the sweet spot every time. I feel stronger after 20-40 miles, can still stand to climb even though I'm not a strong climber.
I am feeling a bit of a twinge at the front/top of the patella after a longer ride -- relieved when I scoot forward just a smidge on the nose -- so I may need to scoot the saddle slightly forward. But otherwise it's been terrific and a significant factor in reducing thigh cramps/spasms.
03-01-18, 11:41 PM
#84
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I've had cramping problems on and off for years. I've gotten them in my calves doing long rides, and sometimes in my feet and thighs.
I've gotten cramps in my hands and other random parts of my body just doing typical daily activities. I've seen my doctor and a neurologist about this and they didn't have much to offer.
I've gotten them while scuba diving too, and that is really not good.
I've tried just about every remedy mentioned on this thread but bottom line is, the one and only thing that has really helped is drinking a lot more water. If I chug a ton of water after the onset of a cramp (maybe with a little self massage) it often goes away after 10 minutes or so. If I drink extra water while riding (whether or not I feel thirsty) it definitely helps prevent cramps. I drink a lot of water while riding anyway, but drinking even more really makes a difference.
I must also add that I have dabbled with weed over the years, and have concluded that it definitely worsens cramping, even if partaking days before the ride. I travel overseas a lot, never use while away, and noticed that I never got cramps while away. I tested the theory at home many times and am certain that it has this effect on me so I rarely do it any more...and rarely get cramps any more, unless I indulge.
So for me the solution has been no weed, and loads of water.
Also, cramps must surely be age related in many cases. I'm 64 and they never bothered me until about 5 or 6 years ago.
But I think that cramps can have many causes, and believe that often there are multiple causes. Reading forum threads about cramps, it seems that what works for one person is of no benefit to the next person. What a mysterious and annoying little ailment.
I've gotten cramps in my hands and other random parts of my body just doing typical daily activities. I've seen my doctor and a neurologist about this and they didn't have much to offer.
I've gotten them while scuba diving too, and that is really not good.
I've tried just about every remedy mentioned on this thread but bottom line is, the one and only thing that has really helped is drinking a lot more water. If I chug a ton of water after the onset of a cramp (maybe with a little self massage) it often goes away after 10 minutes or so. If I drink extra water while riding (whether or not I feel thirsty) it definitely helps prevent cramps. I drink a lot of water while riding anyway, but drinking even more really makes a difference.
I must also add that I have dabbled with weed over the years, and have concluded that it definitely worsens cramping, even if partaking days before the ride. I travel overseas a lot, never use while away, and noticed that I never got cramps while away. I tested the theory at home many times and am certain that it has this effect on me so I rarely do it any more...and rarely get cramps any more, unless I indulge.
So for me the solution has been no weed, and loads of water.
Also, cramps must surely be age related in many cases. I'm 64 and they never bothered me until about 5 or 6 years ago.
But I think that cramps can have many causes, and believe that often there are multiple causes. Reading forum threads about cramps, it seems that what works for one person is of no benefit to the next person. What a mysterious and annoying little ailment.
03-02-18, 12:04 AM
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I used to think the onset of cramps meant the end of my ride. Then I had severe cramps 60 miles into a 300k, dealt with them, and was able to finish quite strong. My strategy for cramps:
1. Back off the intensity,
2. Tell the offending muscle it might as well give up because I'm doing absolutely nothing for it,
3. Carry on.
Works just fine.
1. Back off the intensity,
2. Tell the offending muscle it might as well give up because I'm doing absolutely nothing for it,
3. Carry on.
Works just fine.
03-02-18, 01:40 AM
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Unfortunately, bringing this post back to life two years later, as I still haven't resolved this cramping issue and could desperately use further input.
1) I've determined that pickle juice and mustard do not work. In fact, I would almost say that a large swig of pickle juice makes the cramping worse within 5-7 minutes
2) Last summer, through trial and error I found that consuming a lot of water was helping my long-standing muscle recovery problem. Around a gallon a day. However, in the process, I also learned first-hand what hyper-hydration is...it caused major, ride-ending cramps generally within 30 miles. Should note that I was still consuming Gatorade during/after rides during this experiment, but did not increase my electrolyte intake over normal.
3) As noted previously, I expel a lot of salt, even on cold, deep-winter days. I have tried both pre-loading on salty foods, and consuming heavy-salt foods mid-ride to no avail.
4) I also last summer tried GU electrolyte tablets in lieu of Gatorade, and at one point experimented with pre-loading with one bottle and then drinking four bottles over a 2.5-3 hour period with the tablets to load up during the ride - effectively going overboard with intake - also to no avail. The question is, can someone be so low on electrolytes that they need to load up by consuming several glasses of Gatorade/GU/etc. a day throughout the season to maintain the proper amount? I'm not opposed to trying this, but mainly haven't because of the dental health ramifications of consuming a lot of sports drinks.
5) The onset of cramping is noticeably worse in cold temperatures. I've seen mention of theories of tight muscles and tendons causing leg cramping. I do know that I suffer from cold-induced tightness in the legs that stretching will not cure, as most winters I deal with painful knee issues that instantly disappear when the temperature rises. Is there any actual truth to this theory?
6) While not directly related but included for context, as part of my job I spend about 5-6 weekends a year doing a lot of crouching and kneeling over long hours. In a matter of less than one day, I routinely develop cramps and pains in my thighs that can only be described as the feeling of being struck repeatedly in the thighs by a ball-bat. These pains generally take a week to fully subside and make it difficult to even walk right or go up stairs.
7) The only thing I have not experimented with is taking specific vitamins. I have taken magnesium for a period before, but not during the height of cycling season nor likely in a dose that would make a difference in an endurance sport scenario. Any input here?
I'm 34, 170 lbs., ride about 8,000 miles a year, and don't have any known health issues. The unfortunate part of this is that since taking up cycling several years ago, I've been unable to reach goals I'd like attain in regards to mileage/climbing/routes. I'm unable to participate in out-of-town rides and events because I don't know the terrain nor have a pickup when the inevitable happens. Going riding with friends in the mountains is impossible. Taking part in hilly charity rides is likewise impossible. Frustrating, to say the least.
1) I've determined that pickle juice and mustard do not work. In fact, I would almost say that a large swig of pickle juice makes the cramping worse within 5-7 minutes
2) Last summer, through trial and error I found that consuming a lot of water was helping my long-standing muscle recovery problem. Around a gallon a day. However, in the process, I also learned first-hand what hyper-hydration is...it caused major, ride-ending cramps generally within 30 miles. Should note that I was still consuming Gatorade during/after rides during this experiment, but did not increase my electrolyte intake over normal.
3) As noted previously, I expel a lot of salt, even on cold, deep-winter days. I have tried both pre-loading on salty foods, and consuming heavy-salt foods mid-ride to no avail.
4) I also last summer tried GU electrolyte tablets in lieu of Gatorade, and at one point experimented with pre-loading with one bottle and then drinking four bottles over a 2.5-3 hour period with the tablets to load up during the ride - effectively going overboard with intake - also to no avail. The question is, can someone be so low on electrolytes that they need to load up by consuming several glasses of Gatorade/GU/etc. a day throughout the season to maintain the proper amount? I'm not opposed to trying this, but mainly haven't because of the dental health ramifications of consuming a lot of sports drinks.
5) The onset of cramping is noticeably worse in cold temperatures. I've seen mention of theories of tight muscles and tendons causing leg cramping. I do know that I suffer from cold-induced tightness in the legs that stretching will not cure, as most winters I deal with painful knee issues that instantly disappear when the temperature rises. Is there any actual truth to this theory?
6) While not directly related but included for context, as part of my job I spend about 5-6 weekends a year doing a lot of crouching and kneeling over long hours. In a matter of less than one day, I routinely develop cramps and pains in my thighs that can only be described as the feeling of being struck repeatedly in the thighs by a ball-bat. These pains generally take a week to fully subside and make it difficult to even walk right or go up stairs.
7) The only thing I have not experimented with is taking specific vitamins. I have taken magnesium for a period before, but not during the height of cycling season nor likely in a dose that would make a difference in an endurance sport scenario. Any input here?
I'm 34, 170 lbs., ride about 8,000 miles a year, and don't have any known health issues. The unfortunate part of this is that since taking up cycling several years ago, I've been unable to reach goals I'd like attain in regards to mileage/climbing/routes. I'm unable to participate in out-of-town rides and events because I don't know the terrain nor have a pickup when the inevitable happens. Going riding with friends in the mountains is impossible. Taking part in hilly charity rides is likewise impossible. Frustrating, to say the least.
Also ask for a doppler ultrasound to check for blood clots.
Get tested for peripheral artery disease, multiple sclerosis, and others.
If your Dr doesn't take it too seriously, ask for a referral to a sports Dr specialist.
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03-02-18, 02:01 AM
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Are you speaking about yourself, or do you have some peer reviewed research to back up your assertion?
03-02-18, 03:02 AM
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What unterhausen and ddub is correct.
Given the longevity of Dreww10's problems, it is time he goes to a Dr about it, but yes, lack of conditioning for the effort expended is a common cause of cramps, plus, as ddub says, "As well as a plethora of other factors."
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03-02-18, 08:44 AM
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Granted the OP sounds like they have a chronic problem so this may not apply, however, when getting thigh cramps due to a high effort, race pace, end of a century, etc. Try hitting the cramping muscle hard with the heal of a balled fit. It sounds illogical and well, stupid, but the impact can help bring the muscle back into normal contractions. Once that happens you need to get on the bottle and eat right away.
Personally, I'd stay away from Gatorade and other high sugar drinks. Save the sugar stuff, gels, caffeine et al, until the bitter end. Instead eat real food, bananas, sandwiches, etc, and drink water with electrolytes like Nuun. Enough can't be said for good nutrition.
My personal bonk killer is Red Bull and a Snickers bar. Back in the day, it was Jolt Cola and a Snickers bar.
Personally, I'd stay away from Gatorade and other high sugar drinks. Save the sugar stuff, gels, caffeine et al, until the bitter end. Instead eat real food, bananas, sandwiches, etc, and drink water with electrolytes like Nuun. Enough can't be said for good nutrition.
My personal bonk killer is Red Bull and a Snickers bar. Back in the day, it was Jolt Cola and a Snickers bar.
03-02-18, 11:35 AM
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I used to think the onset of cramps meant the end of my ride. Then I had severe cramps 60 miles into a 300k, dealt with them, and was able to finish quite strong. My strategy for cramps:
1. Back off the intensity,
2. Tell the offending muscle it might as well give up because I'm doing absolutely nothing for it,
3. Carry on.
Works just fine.
1. Back off the intensity,
2. Tell the offending muscle it might as well give up because I'm doing absolutely nothing for it,
3. Carry on.
Works just fine.
While I certainly don't discredit the theory of conditioning being the cause of cramps, I have yet to see someone who rides with semi-regularity who can't go to the mountains and climb 6-8,000 feet for a day successfully without having pre-conditioned themselves with climbing that much in a day before. Given the volume that I ride annually and my power, I should be able to do it. So in my case, I firmly believe this is something other than conditioning or effort.
03-02-18, 12:05 PM
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If lack of conditioning was the only cause of cramps then why did Katie Compton struggle with them for so many years?
There's limited science out there and what studies have been done have been inconclusive. Conditioning, nutrition, hydration, stretching, allergies (in Compton's case), and, I dunno, whether Mercury is in retrograde or something -- can all be factors and it's different for everyone. That's why there's about a million "leg cramps" threads.
So anyway, what's the best chain lube?
There's limited science out there and what studies have been done have been inconclusive. Conditioning, nutrition, hydration, stretching, allergies (in Compton's case), and, I dunno, whether Mercury is in retrograde or something -- can all be factors and it's different for everyone. That's why there's about a million "leg cramps" threads.
So anyway, what's the best chain lube?
03-02-18, 06:04 PM
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Have you been to the doctor yet?
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03-02-18, 09:01 PM
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I'm not sure what is going on with the OP, sounds like he has a medical issue.
Since this is pretty old thread, I have heard of peer reviewed research about the subject of cramps. I never tracked it down though. I'm pretty sure I heard it on the trainerroad podcast. The researcher they interviewed mentioned that heat reduces your effective fitness level if you aren't acclimated, which can lead to cramps. So this matches pretty well with my experience.
I also discovered that taking enough electrolyte pills to keep me from cramping upsets my stomach. I switched to "salt sticks" which help and haven't upset my stomach much.
The really weird thing about my cramps is that I can just put an enduralyte under my tongue and not get cramps. The problem is it starts getting dangerously soft after a mile or two. Maybe hypnosis would work for me, dunno.
03-03-18, 02:20 PM
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Multi-division boxing champ Manny Pacquiao experienced cramps in his calves, more so late in his career. He was undoubtedly among the fittest boxers I've ever seen, rarely tiring significantly in any bout, from his early days as a flyweight to his later matches as a welterweight.
It would be interesting to know whether his calf cramps corresponded with his PED use. Because there's no dang way he went from flyweight to bantam to feather to lightweight to light welter and full welterweight as a mature adult while remaining fully ripped with lean muscle mass without some chemical magic. There's bound to be some price to pay, even if it's not the risks of the steroids of the bad old days.
For example, I need corticosteroids to prevent and treat asthma. Muscle cramps are a common side effect. I've made other adjustments to cope, such as switching to rigid sole clipless shoes (keeps my feet in a more ergonomically efficient position to minimize spasms) and swapping saddles (minimized thigh cramps by reducing scooting around and wasting energy).
Gabapentin seems to relieve the worst bouts with nighttime cramps.
So if you're experiencing muscle cramps, check your prescription and OTC meds. Those inhalers may be contributing.
It would be interesting to know whether his calf cramps corresponded with his PED use. Because there's no dang way he went from flyweight to bantam to feather to lightweight to light welter and full welterweight as a mature adult while remaining fully ripped with lean muscle mass without some chemical magic. There's bound to be some price to pay, even if it's not the risks of the steroids of the bad old days.
For example, I need corticosteroids to prevent and treat asthma. Muscle cramps are a common side effect. I've made other adjustments to cope, such as switching to rigid sole clipless shoes (keeps my feet in a more ergonomically efficient position to minimize spasms) and swapping saddles (minimized thigh cramps by reducing scooting around and wasting energy).
Gabapentin seems to relieve the worst bouts with nighttime cramps.
So if you're experiencing muscle cramps, check your prescription and OTC meds. Those inhalers may be contributing.
03-04-18, 10:34 PM
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Not yet. I'm experimenting with some various methods suggested here and in my research elsewhere before engaging with a doctor (would probably need to find a sports doc).
I should note, while has been a long-term problem, I've admittedly not given much effort to solving it. Last season I experimented with electrolytes and the volume and timing of consumption, but that was largely the extent of it. This spring, I'm looking into and exhausting other options. In addition to pre-loading with Gatorade and upping my sodium intake, I've also begun magnesium tablets (500mg daily) over the last few days to see how that goes.
To clarify, my cramps are only a result of energy expended. I've never cramped early into a ride, or unexpectedly...it's either climbing over a long distance, hard effort over a long distance, or both, ie. most assuredly tied to muscle fatigue in my case.
I should note, while has been a long-term problem, I've admittedly not given much effort to solving it. Last season I experimented with electrolytes and the volume and timing of consumption, but that was largely the extent of it. This spring, I'm looking into and exhausting other options. In addition to pre-loading with Gatorade and upping my sodium intake, I've also begun magnesium tablets (500mg daily) over the last few days to see how that goes.
To clarify, my cramps are only a result of energy expended. I've never cramped early into a ride, or unexpectedly...it's either climbing over a long distance, hard effort over a long distance, or both, ie. most assuredly tied to muscle fatigue in my case.
Last edited by Dreww10; 03-04-18 at 10:51 PM.
03-04-18, 10:41 PM
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You've been experimenting for 2 years ... it's time to pay a visit to your local GP. This may not be just normal, exercise-related muscle cramps. This could be something a whole lot more serious.
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03-05-18, 02:10 PM
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The elevation playing a role with cramping lends me to believe the your muscles are not getting the oxygen they need let alone the blood having enough to power your daily system's needs.
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03-06-18, 12:33 AM
#98
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Go find a dr. specialized in the respiratory system and be sure to have various oxygen level tests done.
The elevation playing a role with cramping lends me to believe the your muscles are not getting the oxygen they need let alone the blood having enough to power your daily system's needs.
The elevation playing a role with cramping lends me to believe the your muscles are not getting the oxygen they need let alone the blood having enough to power your daily system's needs.
Just in case there is a misconception, I'm not riding at high elevation, just elevation gain (ie. climbing hills).
I don't know how useful this is, but one particular example highlighted the potential for this being a nutrition issue. Last summer, there was a 3-4 day period where I drank a considerable amount of water (more than a gallon daily) experimenting with increased intake and it's furthered effect on muscle recovery. I was still consuming electrolytes during my rides, but did not increase my intake of electrolytes relative to water intake. I went out for a ride one day in the midst of this period, and in not only far less distance, but far less effort or climbing than ever before, I developed cramps five-fold beyond anything I'd ever experienced. I had to roll off the bike into the grass, with my quads briefly bulging out of my skin in a fashion I didn't know was possible. For a good minute or so, it hurt so bad I just wanted to saw my leg off. I was able to calm the pain and the swollen muscle by sitting for a couple minutes and massaging, but could not continue the ride. I immediately discontinued my high water intake and returned back to normal within a day or so. I'm certainly no expert on the matter, but it seemed to me that I had completely drowned out my electrolytes, thus greatly speeding up my normal cramping process. So, this is where my thought process on an electrolyte imbalance stems from.
03-06-18, 07:18 AM
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If I read the original post correctly, you are successfully completing 8,000 miles a year which is more than 95% of the people posting on your thread
maybe look up, nutrition for ultra athletes and endurance competitors
maybe ride less or substitute another exercise a couple of days a week
maybe look up, nutrition for ultra athletes and endurance competitors
maybe ride less or substitute another exercise a couple of days a week
03-06-18, 07:24 AM
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I suppose it could be nutrition. I was always skeptical of vitamin supplements, but when I started taking a multivitamin, I had noticeable positive effects. Unfortunately, it didn't seem to help my cramping. I almost always do better with cramping later in the year. Last year being the exception, but I'm pretty sure that was heat tolerance and overtraining.