fietsbob

Brompton , .. into the Pub.

Darth_Firebolt

I guess you guys skipped the big /S at the end? We don't even have train stations in my town.

General Geoff

To keep this on topic, here is the hardest, most difficult to cut chain available, being cut with a cordless angle grinder.


About a minute for each cut, so 2 minutes to cut a chunk out of it, in ideal controlled conditions (clamped in a bench vise at ideal height, using the most powerful cordless grinder available, with a fully charged battery and new cutoff wheel). It could take twice as long or more, if you position the chain lower down (but not on the ground) with little slack so that it's difficult and awkward to put force behind the grinder and onto the links.

ColonelSanders

No doubt the Pewag chain is excellent and clearly better than the offerings by Abus, Kryptonite, On-Guard etc, but there are two chains made in the UK that might be even tougher than the Pewag, especially those that have larger diameter links.

The two I am referring to are the Pragmasis Protector Chains and the ***** Immobiliser Series III. (Al-max Immobiliser Series III)

At this stage I am likely to buy the Pragmasis Protector Chains in both 13mm diameter and 16mm diameter, some time before the year is out.

General Geoff

Protector Police-Approved and Sold Secure-Approved Security Chains direct from Pragmasis, the manufacturer

The pewag chain is so hard, that bolt cutter jaws literally chip and break before they scratch the chain.

I imagine the 16mm stuff would take much longer to grind through, at least.

Darth Lefty 

It's going to weigh as much as your whole bike

ColonelSanders

Was the bolt cutter that was used on the Pewag chain a 42" bolt cutter?

Here is a video where a 300Euro Bolt Cutter had no luck whatsoever with a 13mm Protector Chain.


One of the reasons why I am unlikely to get the Pewag is that I can't find a lock that I am happy with that I could use to lock it up(as you need at least 25mm horizontal space under the shackle), whereas the Protector chains loop through each other so that only a single link need to go under the shackle of the padlock, thus with 13mm & 16mm diameter chains, you only need a 14mm to 17mm space under the shackle.

ColonelSanders

There will only be select occasions where I would be taking a 13mm diameter chain with me and on those occasions, I don't have very far to ride.

The 16mm diameter chain would only be for home use, so I don't have to worry about lugging it around.

I'm using a mix of chains, U-Locks and Frame Locks, depending on where I am going, so sometimes I will be travelling light in respect of security, with only the 730gram Frame lock on my bike and other times I will additionally have an extra 7kgs(15lbs) of chains and U-Locks with me.

ColonelSanders

I've been looking at the different chains again and am wondering if I would be better off on compromising on the lock, in order to go with the Pewag chain(s).

One thing I noticed is that the 12mm Pewag weighs 2.38lbs/ft and the 13mm Pragmasis Protector weighs 1.914lbs/ft, so that would point to the Pewag being a stronger chain.

The 16mm Pragmasis Protector chain weighs 2.97lbs/ft.

Anyway, if I were to go with the Viro Padlock that Westech Rigging sell, I could get a 5ft 3/8"(10mm) chain and a 5ft 7/16(12mm) chain from Pewag and that would give me a chain for when I am mobile and a chain for when my bike is at home.

The 10mm Pewag chain weighs 1.65lbs/ft.

Miele Man

I worked for security for years. The first thing we taught was that there's no such thing as total security. All you can do is make your bike more secure than the ones around it and hope the thief doesn't take components or d ecide that your bike is worthy challenge. I've also worked with locksmiths and it's surprisingly easy to beat even the best locks and to do it without using an anglr grinder. I will not post on an open forum how that is done.

In many case with super strong chain it's the lock that's the weak point.

Wrap your cable/chain and lock is such a manner that they don't touch the ground wehere a would be thief can exert greater pressure/leverage.

Cheers

General Geoff

I've yet to see evidence that anyone has actually defeated/bypassed an Abloy Protec2 lock, without brute force. TOOOL (The Open Organization of Lockpickers) agrees with this assessment. The one I use has a 14mm shackle, so it's slightly thicker than the chain accompanying it and correspondingly hard to cut.

General Geoff

UPDATE for those looking for an unbiased LiteLock test:



14 seconds with an angle grinder.

SpeshulEd 

I recently backed this kickstarter...I'm curious to see how it does in real world testing, but it seems ideal for my purposes, where you don't really want to carry a ulock, but a cable lock doesn't seem like enough.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...k-for-bikes-an

Doug5150

Cordless angle grinders seem to be the current tech in bicycle theft.
To that end, I have wondered if using stainless steel would not be better.

Stainless steel melts and spalls, it clogs grinder wheels. It takes WAY longer to cut with a angle grinder than carbon steel does. And it often snags in deep cuts and breaks the cut-off wheel.

The other idea is to somehow mix diamonds into the metal. That may require casting tho, and limits how the parts can be finished during manufacturing.

As for practical advice, the best I've heard is to just use two different kinds of good locks on your bike, both of which lock it to an immovable object. That way it's twice as difficult to steal as all the other ones around.

Retro Grouch 

Bicycle locks. The new way to play "Mine's bigger."

1989Pre 

I saw videos on Youtube of the Master U-locks being ripped open with a car jack, so I bought the Blackburn Attica lock and chain. The 12mm chain and 16mm shackle seem fine, but the lock body seems too light and will not hold a magnet, so I want to have it tested for pick resistance, resistance to freezing and resistance to cutting. I'll mail it to anyone who is a locksmith so that they can post the results on this string. In the meantime, I am going to buy the Abloy PL350

General Geoff

I'd recommend BosnianBill, he's a highly skilled pick and also has numerous brute force tools to test.

https://lock-lab.com/faq/

gsa103

Sounds about right. Angle grinders only care about how much you have to cut through. A 15mm chain is going to take about 2.25x longer than than a 10mm chain, because it has (15/10)^2 more area.

That Litelok is just too small is survive long.

veloz

My strategy: Cables are only for lock ups where I can watch my bike. Chain or u-lock for when I can't. Either way, I only lock in conspicuous public view. Decent chain (7mm Krypto) needs a 36" bolt cutter or angle grinder. Neither are discreet in use. Chain needs 2 cuts. I favor it over my u-lock as its more versatile and compact to carry although heavier.

SpeshulEd 

The litelok was never meant to be a long term lock was it? Kind of like the Ottolock is not recommended for overnight locking and whatnot, but more of something to use when you run into a coffeeshop or something.

mc9000

I backed this also, ordered the 60" version. Hopefully it'll make its Feb 2017 release date.

General Geoff

I dunno, that Ottolock looks like it could be cut pretty easily with a sharp pair of mini bolt cutters that fit in a front pocket.

SpeshulEd 

In the video (they also allowed people to demo this at their interbike booth) it shows the lock is actually made up of several steel bands - when you try to cut them with bolt cutters, the bands slide against themselves, making it very difficult to cut.

Yes, and angle grinder would go through it, but most people aren't taking an angle grinder to a bike lock outside of a coffee shop in broad daylight.

It seems lighter and stronger than a cable lock, which would be perfect on quick jaunts to the store, restaurant for dinner, and on the road bike for longer rides where you need to stop to run to the bathroom or grab food/drink.

It'll never do the job of a heavy chain or a U-lock, but I would never carry those on 50 mile ride in the first place.

We'll see anyway, I'm quite excited to give it a shot.

Daniel4

I would be concerned with the number rings or the durability and strength of the lock itself.