corrado33

While I agree with both of these statements, I don't feel it's the job of the general public to "deal" with homeless people. I know that's a harsh way to look at it, but it's true. The general pubic is not compassionate enough to work with the homeless. When you ask the public (in the US) to "deal" with homeless their solutions involve simply ignoring the problem or installing spikes.

In the end, the homeless people are breaking the law. Report it to the proper authorities.

As for bad shelters, the shelter next door is "nice." They're staffed all night and you're not allowed to leave once you're there for the night, so theft would be... difficult. They're only open in the winter though. (It stays quite warm at night here in the summer.) They open multiple days a week in the summer for showers.

While it is true that very few people choose to be homeless, many of the homeless choose to do nothing about it. Whether that's getting help or attempting to find a job.

Makes me want to do an experiment. Dress in semi raggedy clothes and attempt to find a job that will pay me with no address or anything else like that.

Hypno Toad

To those making statements to the effect of "let the homeless person camp in the bike box" ... and how do you think a business would react to a homeless camping in a parking ramp? We all know that this wouldn't be allowed.

In Minneapolis, I'd call 311 to report the issue. And in response to another post above, Minneapolis has tons of bike boxes and plenty of homeless people.

fietsbob

some towns put tiny houses up, others may choose fire Hoses

jon c. 

Ah, but, two hours of pushin' broom
Buys an eight by twelve four-bit room



Not anymore. At least not legally without an SS Card and an approved government picture ID. Illegally you have to compete with undocumented workers and they have a reputation for working harder than down and out Americans.

Seattle Forrest

It's hard to say because these are the homeless people you see, on the streets and sidewalks. The ones who fell on hard times and are couch surfing among friends, you wouldn't know they're homeless to look at them. It's a big problem and there are many facets. But whenever I go through downtown and a lot of other neighborhoods I see a lot of the ones you describe and they're pretty much exactly as you said.

Secret Squirrel

Whatever you do, don't leave your helmet or clothes in the previously vacated locker!
In all seriousness, Bed Bugs are likely. Not exclusively from the potential human occupants, but from the luggage that shared their presence. A common countermeasure used by homeless shelters is a dose of diatomaceous earth sprinkled. This treatment works on most hard shelled insects.

corrado33

Very true, I hadn't thought about that.

The sad truth is that homeless people (the ones you see) are hard to be around. The ones with mental illnesses (not sure nor do I care if that's the PC term) are difficult to deal with. It's hard to talk to someone who doesn't understand social cues. It's difficult to converse with extremely paranoid people. It's hard to be around someone with really bad body odor or really bad breath. Some are simply combative from trying to survive. Many will tell you their lives' story simply because you said hi to them. Our social training prevents us from interrupting them to say "I'm sorry but I have to leave." So in general it's an awkward interaction.

I'm not saying that all homeless are like this, but many are.

ThermionicScott 

I've had meaningful exchanges with @Rollfast that left me in no doubt that he is a genuine, caring human being. Do you have anyone that will vouch for YOU?

italktocats

do you realize the difference or do i need to point it out?

General Geoff

Please do point out the difference.

canklecat

Regarding bed bugs, diatomaceous earth isn't very effective and is more likely to aggravate respiratory problems in vulnerable people. Some elderly folks in my apartment complex ended up with bronchitis and pneumonia from using the stuff, and it still had no effect on bed bugs. It could be devastating to homeless folks who are already in poor health.

Amorphous silica gel powder, commonly sold under the brand Cimexa, is far more effective, with fewer respiratory risks. I have asthma, and allergic to all kinds of stuff, and get bronchitis easily, but I needed only a simple paper dust mask while applying Cimexa with a hand operated duster and soft brush. No respiratory complications.

Cimexa is just a desiccant that adheres to the waxy exoskeleton and dries out the bed begs, usually within 24-48 hours. In most situations it's a one-time application that can last for years (although it can be removed with vacuuming, so reapplication may be needed). It leaves a tacky, dry feel on the fingertips, like rosin dust.

A local heat treatment followed by Cimexa (or any good brand of amorphous silica gel powder -- but I've used Cimexa successfully for a couple of years in our apartment complex) works very well.

In an enclosed space like a metal locker a safe heater can be used to raise the temperature to 120-140F for several hours. If that's not practical, a simple handheld clothes steamer will work. Spray the hot steam into every nook and crack and crevice -- it'll kill the critters quickly.

After the steam dries, puff in some Cimexa with a squeeze bulb duster. Done.

italktocats

can i take your car and sell it on ebay since your parked it too long? do i someone take ownership of your vehicle? obviously not.

General Geoff

You've obviously never had your car impounded in NYC.

ddeand 

It's so hard and annoying to be inconvenienced. Personally, I'm thankful I can afford to own three decent bikes. Maybe the OP could take his bike inside the gym and insist that he be allowed to park the bike in a back room during his workout. That might convince the gym to create some sort of bike-parking system for it's members. In the realm of problems, it seems the homeless have a lot more issues than someone riding a bike to a gym for a workout and not being able to secure his bike. And I place myself in that category - it's a first world problem, and I often struggle with myself for some of my feelings.

CliffordK

Many stores have policies of only using parking when one is shopping.

There is no reason why one couldn't post a sign next to the lockers. "FOR PATRON'S BICYCLES ONLY", or similar (with appropriate fine print).

Then just simply enforce the posted policy.

Maelochs

There is a bike rack outside my gym. I choose not to use it because it is not visible from the gym, and I don’t like leaving my bike outside, out of site, in a low-traffic area for that long. I bring it inside—which has only once caused an issue (new employee.) If I were to actually demand employee assistance twice each day—to deposit and collect the bike—that might start to be a burden on the staff.

Also, so far, only once has a second cyclist opted to also bring his bike inside. If more did, that would be an issue.

A commercial operation only has so much available space. There is not always a “back room” of sufficient size to safely park a bicycle where it would also no t interfere with the staff doing its jobs. If I create an issue, the likely outcome would be that gym management telling me to use the rack.
I am not without sympathy for the homeless, having been homeless briefly and having lived with and befriended some homeless people.

However, homeless people, though generally not quite right mentally, still have to follow the law and cooperate with society. Sure, we can cut them some slack, but they don’t get a free ride.

I have known homeless people who were so clean and organized that you would never guess that they camped out and others who had plenty of mental capacity but simply didn’t care—slovenly, filthy, and also lived filthily, so that their camps became dumpsters (unnecessary since there were plenty of actual dumpsters nearby.)

Shelters often are not a good solution because of theft—it doesn’t matter if the shelter is closed at night, shelter staff cannot settle a dispute if one person robs another; it isn’t like the homeless all have their possessions’ serial numbers registered with the police, engraved with their names, and have saved all their receipts.

Shelters are good in areas with extreme weather as a pure survival issue—but in this case, I am assuming bicycle parking isn’t an issue that arises in say, downtown Chicago in the wintertime.

The situation is simple: enforce the laws. If the gym wants the parking to be for patrons only, then the gym could demand that bike-shed users sign in and out. Lockers which aren’t claimed by gym patrons would be subject to having the lock cut and the contents bagged and placed behind the gym, or something—or dumped after 24 hours. Signs saying such could be posted.

Look at it this way: None of the people posting here would ever invite random homeless people to stay in their homes, or even to pitch tents in their property. None of us would invite random homeless people to stay in our garages, nor build sheds on our property to allow homeless people to store stuff.

If any of us found a homeless person camping in one of our garages or storing stuff in our sheds, we would take steps to stop it. That pretty much defines our depth of compassion on this subject. “Fine if it happens on your property, downtown, but not in my back yard,” literally.

I can think of some possibilities: to prevent sleeping, cover most of the floor with those pigeon spikes—sleeping being a health hazard seeing as you would also have the problem of human waste and food waste and garbage in general, all of which breeds bad things. Kind of a harsh solution, and it would likely lead to homeless people dragging in pieces of cardboard and planks of wood to make beds—at which point the management Really ought to think of a better solution.

The management could install some ancillary lockers knowing the homeless would use them, and enforce the policy of no storage/camping in the bike sheds.

The management could issue locks upon request to gym members. Gym members would be responsible for the locks. Bike sheds locked with non-gym-issue locks could be cleaned out.

Think of it this way, if homeless people camped out in every parking spot in front of the gym, so that nobody could park their cars there, no one would think twice about having them removed. “Sorry, but this is not a suitable place to set up camp.” In what way is it different if a few of those parking spots are enclosed?

If people Really want to help the homeless, they should start or join existing initiatives to do just that. If homeless people matter that much to some posters, those posters should start raising funds to provide counselling, shelter sites, bathing and laundry facilities, maybe match homeless people willing to work with low-skill jobs.

I know it feels bad to tell a homeless person, “You cannot have this spot, my bicycle is more important,” but really, how much of a favor are you doing for the homeless person either way? How much are you doing to alleviate homelessness?

Camping in city limits is usually illegal for health and hygiene reasons. Commandeering space—private property—is a crime prima facie. Asking homeless people to play by the rules is not a huge burden. I wouldn’t exact the full penalty possible under law—I am not out to incarcerate or really punish homeless people in any way—but just as it would be if a homeless person started storing stuff in my mailbox: “Sorry, you can’t do that and if you do, I will toss your stuff next time.”

I bet even the softest-hearted among us would have an entirely different feeling if a homeless person stole and sold his bike.

CliffordK

It would be inefficient to assign a locker per person, who might only use it a few hours a week.

But, they could install 2 locks. 1 gym lock with a common combination (that can be reset periodically if needed). Plus a personal lock. Staff would freely give out the combo to the gym lock to customers.

Of course, there may be some homeless individuals with enough resources to pay for a gym membership to allow access to lockers, showers, etc.

Actually, that is one of the problems with the homeless communities. No cheap secure storage. Little access to showers and restroom facilities. Around here, the city turns off the water fountains for about 6 months a year.

fietsbob

US being a hateful country ... Lined with spikes like the Iron Maiden ..

jefnvk

If you allow me to park a bike in your garage when I visit your home, are you required to leave it there until I decide I want to take it back with me?

No, you can't sell the car, but you can sure call a towing company who can impound it, and who then can appeal to the police to have it declared abandoned and sell it if an owner doesn't show up in a reasonable amount of time. Heck, one needs to look no further than any of the storage wars shows out there to understand the concept that such property isn't truly yours to do with as you please.

Booger1

I'm guessing an 8 hour shift locked in with your bike will improve the problem.....

Maelochs

On the other hand, if the gym wants to promote use of the bike lockers and also promote the gym, throwing away members;' bikes might not be the best course of action, eh?

Likely the gym would only clean out the lockers full of garbage bags full of random stuff. I don't think the gym staff would think, "We need to toss this $3000 bike this homeless guy left here."

Pardon my unclarity. What I meant was that a member would come in, sign in for a lock and locker, and would thereafter be responsible for that lock and locker until s/he emptied the locker and returned the lock----most usually right after finishing his/her workout.

jefnvk

Oh yeah, of course. Then again, if the idea is that the homeless using the boxes for their belongings is taking up space others with bikes need, how long would you just leave a bike sitting in there if it is obvious it has been in there a few days, when you have customers coming day in and day out using those lockers? They are there for short term parking while using the facilities, not long term storage.

And yeah, gym provided locks that you walk in and get a key/code for is probably a better idea than bring your own.

General Geoff

Even just having a sign-in/sign-out sheet for the lockers would be very useful. That way if there's a locker that's been locked continuously for over a day, they can look at the sheet and see who, if anyone, is claiming its use, and call a provided phone number to remind them to remove their bike from it. Name, phone number, and signature agreeing to not use the locker for more than xx continuous hours should make it very easy to be reminded that you have something in the locker, even if you're called away unexpectedly.

Any locker that has a lock on it or stuff in it that isn't being claimed on paper, gets cleaned out and its contents disposed of after x amount of hours.


ideally, you'd have gym-provided locks/keys AND another hasp for a personally provided lock, to guarantee that the gym staff aren't hijacking your bicycle or effects. This way the locker also stays locked even when vacant, so vagrants can't get in. Another added benefit is that you can see at a glance which lockers are vacant by seeing if there's a second lock on them.

CliffordK

Is it a 24 hour facility? Or is there downtime?

Say, if it is closed from 2:00 AM to 4:00 AM... then just clean out all the lockers at closing/opening. Have some way for customers to claim lost goods.

One thing we'll start getting more and more of in the next decade will be cell phone (bluetooth) locks.

Download the app onto your phone, and you can uniquely lock/unlock your own lock. No keys or key cards needed. And, a smart device will know exactly who is using the locker, and when the lock was last opened/closed. And, if done right, one should be able to add and drop customers.

HauntedMyst

If you have a friend with a German Shepherd, ask to borrow it. GSD's love to chase the homeless.