ADAP7IVE

You may have seen my smattering of recent posts about different bikes, quality, geometry, and price.

Short background: I'm looking to get a bike to explore Japan with variable terrain and wet weather. Also long commutes after I train up. Rode a Surly Trucker for commuting in Chicago, but it was definitely too much bike for being left outside any length of time. Kept me from riding as much as I would have otherwise.

I've been visiting shops in my prefecture and finding that no one is willing to give test rides. They won't even order a bike to check the fit, despite looking at bikes from $800-$1200. I'm just so frustrated with it. I can afford a grand on a bike, but I can't afford spending a grand only to find that it's the wrong fit and just having to deal with it, or spend more to change stems/bars to make it fit when it should have from the beginning.

I'm just beat up by this whole process...wanted a bike, but finding the cost high and selection low. I don't want a steel piste bike, which are very fashionable here. I don't want a cruiser "mama bike." I don't want a racing road bike. I want a bike fit for lots of kilometers on variable terrain, which means 'cross or touring, maybe endurance road geometry. I even found a cross bike discounted 25% to $1200, but like every other shop, they don't have it in-store, it's at the manufacturer's warehouse. They won't order it to test unless I pay up front.

I've basically come to the conclusion that I have to take a risk on something that doesn't fit, spend even more to travel and find a fitting bike, buy what is in the stores (which are out of my budget range, don't fit, or are just not to my liking), or just give up and not buy a bicycle. Ugh.

/rant. Sorry for dumping; you guys don't have to respond if you don't want, but if you could just make a good bike at or under $1000 appear before me, I'd really appreciate it.

canklecat

Would a folder suit some of your needs? They're available up to 26" wheel sizes (like the Dahon Jack). Some offer enough adjustability in stems and handlebars to compensate for some fit issues. And folding would make it easier to store in small apartments. I'm still consider a folder as a spare bike for rides on smoother pavement. It would be difficult to make room for a second full sized bike in my apartment.

General Geoff

What is the trade/return policy on a special order bike at these shops? If you pay up front, and the first frame size doesn't fit, are they willing to send that back in exchange for a different size? If so, just get that policy in writing and go from there.

ADAP7IVE

I started my search looking for folders actually, but moved away from them because of the relatively high cost compared to standard bikes. Right now I'm in rural Japan where public transit, while reliable, has big gaps. That leaves me with long rides regardless, and I was hesitant to do long rides (42 km round-trip commute) on a folder in all weather conditions with the hills I have. I did get to test ride a friend's Brompton S2E recently, though. I learned then that I am completely happy with the feel of that bike. So maybe I should revisit folders, at least the Brompton...

That's a good question. To take it further, are they willing to refund me if there is no fitting size available (lots of the suppliers in Japan don't carry the larger sizes even if they're available elsewhere in the world)? I'll contact them and ask the shops to see.

CliffordK

Do you stand about a foot taller than the average Japanese cyclist?

It is quite possible that nobody in Japan wants the dead inventory when you order a Wilt Chamberlain sized bike, and then decide you don't want it.

Likewise, I wouldn't knock any USA bike shop that chose not to special order a 70cm bike for someone that was a bit wishy washy for what they wanted, or refused to pay a deposit up front.

Where is the warehouse? Maybe schedule a trip to Tokyo, and perhaps get a local bike shop to help facilitate preparing a test ride and potential shipping.

Personally I don't care about the perfect fit. I'm not a pro racer trying to shave that last second off of a 100 mile bike ride. Get something close, and you should be fine. Adjust the stem and seat as necessary.

Here is an interesting thread on size variety... I may be actively riding one of the widest range of bikes, but I'm not alone.
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...-you-ride.html

ADAP7IVE

I'm 176 cm or 5'10" tall, which isn't strange for men in Japan...Shops are small though, and I get not wanting to keep extra stock around. It's uncommon for anyone to want a 'cross bike, or really anything above about $500. If I come in asking for an $800-1000-1200, that'll be hard to sell if it doesn't work. I understand it, I'm just frustrated by the conventions of bike sellers around here.

Machka 

Measure the Surly. Use the measurements to determine the size of your next bicycle.

$800-$1200 isn't very expensive ... it's not a lot of money for a bicycle. (Although, I will add that I'm not familiar with the average prices in Japan.) You may need to up your budget to get what you want.

However, have you looked at the used market?

ADAP7IVE

I agree, it isn't much for a well-spec'd bike. But most people in Japan (I'm talking close to 100%) have or have ridden a steel cruiser-utility-style "mama" bike (from the Japanese) that costs $100-$500 usually. They ride them until the wheels fall off, rarely servicing them, then toss and replace. I do see cycling enthusiasts, but most often they're riding classic piste-style bikes or modern racing bikes.

Do you mean I raise my budget above $1200 for a bicycle?

The used market hasn't been easily accessible where I am (rural area). Yahoo Auctions is what everyone here uses, but again, I can't be sure about condition when I buy them. Though it may be possible to drop my budget to an amount that I'd be comfortable risking, and see what I find.

Machka 

Yes, I am familiar with the bicycles in Japan. I've been there.

You may have to raise your budget above $1200 to get what you want ... either that or settle for something less than what you want.

But as I said ... measure the bicycle you have. Then you'll know what size to order.

ADAP7IVE

Thanks for the tips! I'll end up getting something, I'm sure.

ADAP7IVE

This is interesting...I just found this old Specialized Allez on there. Not too much info on the year, but I think that's a steel make.

SpecializedAllez **********??? **********? ??? - ********************??!? - ????!

Phil_gretz

Why not something between full and folding, like a Mercier Nano from bikes direct? Seems like the perfect solution to me, except for the part where you're in Japan, of course.

mongol777

How far away are you from this shop? It is just one of many mentions of them (I belive surly and allcity also mentioned them) Shaping Cycling Culture in Nagoya with Circles Japan | The Radavist

ADAP7IVE

I might just do that, thanks! I was looking at mini bikes, too. They might work and are pretty popular. One shop owner said I wasn't too tall for one, either.

Circles is really popular, but that's about 4 hours by car, longer by bus, from me and a significant amount in tolls, or bus fare. Living in Shikoku means I have to cross a bridge and the tolls are killer out here!

Mr IGH

Do you have an existing bike we can translate measurements to a new bike? With stack and reach it's easy to move between frames.

Your experience in Japan reminds me of when I wanted to buy a full suspension mountain bike in Chicago. All I could do was show up for a factory demo for a ride in the parking lot or try a mechanic's bike. Nothing my in my size (large) and I had to prepay for any special order.

ADAP7IVE

I really don't. I think my Disc Trucker is a 56, but I can't remember honestly. It's in storage in the States, so I can't check.

ADAP7IVE

I just found a Cross Check 52 size for $500, though. Wonder if that would work...

Mr IGH

Without some objective info this is just a conversation with a frustrated buyer. If I was in your position I'd figure out what size frame your existing Surly is and use that info to order proper size first time. Surly gives out complete geometry.

The difference between 52cm and 56cm is significant....

kuroba

I can relate to this situation, as I went through a similar experience when looking for a cross/gravel bike here. I'm 5' so local stores were not willing to order a really small bike for me to try, I had to pay up front (and due to my complicated size I wasn't very keen on the idea). There was no option to get a refund if the bike wasn't my size.

I ended up using several trips to the capital to try on a few bikes while visiting my parents (and when I say "try" I mean just sitting on the bike, not actually riding or anything). None of them fit (too large) so I was glad I never tried my luck blind ordering. Cross/gravel is still very unknown in my country so there aren't many models available (and most of them were over my $1,000 budget, sometimes even doubling it).

In the end I gave up on store bikes (because I couldn't find a bike that fit me, my requirements and my budget) and went for a custom cromoly gravel bike from a workshop I visited on my last trip. I'm still (eagerly) waiting for it

If you can take a trip to a larger city with better bike stores I'd recommend that. I know it's a pain, but it's better than ending up with an ill-fitting bike.

Good luck with your search!

fietsbob

Bike Friday ships the completed bikes anywhere there is an Address.

Globally.

ADAP7IVE

Thank you very much. I decided to go back to the drawing board and look some more later. Your help with sizes is very helpful, though. Thanks again!

Thank you so much! I hope your custom bike is everything we know it can be! I will take another look around and see what I can find.

They're amazing aren't they? Definitely on my list, but like with other good folders I initially rejected that idea for being too expensive. Maybe I should reconsider. They can even do disc brakes and belt drives if I want, too.

Mr IGH

Any of these shops close by?

Japanese bike shops do it up proper Part II | Blog | Surly Bikes

jefnvk

Just tossing this out there: would having someone box and ship your bike to you just be the better option? Might cost a bit, but I'm sure it would be less than a new bike, and you have something you know.

ADAP7IVE

That's great, thanks! I dunno about those shops, but we have a couple surly dealers near me.

Thanks, I considered that, but I don't know anyone who has access and the know-how to do that. Plus, I'd just be shipping it back within a couple years anyway.

ADAP7IVE

I just bought a bike on Yahoo Auctions Japan for $700 plus shipping, a 2015 Bianchi Freccia Disc in my size (55)! Basically the same as the Merida cross 500 I was looking at, but a year older with one prior owner and $500 cheaper. I bought from a reputable shop who sells extra stock through Yahoo, and I have heard good things about the auctions sellers in Japan. Let's hope they were right.

The bike apparently goes for $1500 plus 10% tax in Japan for a new model.

https://www.cycleurope.co.jp/2015/bi...isc_brake.html