Reasons for wheel upgrade?
#26
Banned.
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
OP was talking 'road applications'. Speed. You seem to be fixated with speed. But no, not really. I prefer to think in 'energy expended' or efficiency.
I've ridden many a wheel that wasted a bunch of energy, BUT - properly tune and tension that same wheel and it'll make a butt-load of difference! 36, 32, 40, or 28-spoke is, for the most part, irrelevant. Yes, yes, you have more aero drag with more spokes, I know that. But comparing a 20-spoke 'race wheel' that is improperly tensioned to a 36-spoke that tensioned properly? Guess which one will be faster, 9/10 times!
By that same thought, a properly tensioned set of wheels can make even a heavy 'gas-pipe' frame seem faster than a lighter CrMo, butted CrMo, Al or CF with 'bad wheels'.
A 'good' set of wheels is always the best 'bang-for-the-buck'. Sure, you can cut a half-kilogram of the frame or other components and try to justify the weight savings as the reason for improvement, but a properly-built set of wheels can make or break your riding experience!!!
I've ridden many a wheel that wasted a bunch of energy, BUT - properly tune and tension that same wheel and it'll make a butt-load of difference! 36, 32, 40, or 28-spoke is, for the most part, irrelevant. Yes, yes, you have more aero drag with more spokes, I know that. But comparing a 20-spoke 'race wheel' that is improperly tensioned to a 36-spoke that tensioned properly? Guess which one will be faster, 9/10 times!
By that same thought, a properly tensioned set of wheels can make even a heavy 'gas-pipe' frame seem faster than a lighter CrMo, butted CrMo, Al or CF with 'bad wheels'.
A 'good' set of wheels is always the best 'bang-for-the-buck'. Sure, you can cut a half-kilogram of the frame or other components and try to justify the weight savings as the reason for improvement, but a properly-built set of wheels can make or break your riding experience!!!
Where is the data that proves your assumption?
#27
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Many thanks for all the responses.
I did not care about wheels until recently (up until when I could afford to more expensive wheels). So, I'm a newbie in wheel upgrades. It is informative for me to realize that speed is not the main reason for wheel upgrades for many riders.
I've done two upgrades recently on two bikes:
1. Entry level (Fulcrum Racing 7) --> First class (ROL D'Huez)
2. Below entry level (ALX220) --> Medium class (Shimano RS81 C24)
My main purpose of the upgrades was speed, and in both cases, I was about 0.5 ~ 1 mph faster, and I am happy about it. There might have been other factors (reliability, control, ...) but I had not noticed them enough to tell about.
Maybe I can feel the difference if I put back those lower level wheels.
I did not care about wheels until recently (up until when I could afford to more expensive wheels). So, I'm a newbie in wheel upgrades. It is informative for me to realize that speed is not the main reason for wheel upgrades for many riders.
I've done two upgrades recently on two bikes:
1. Entry level (Fulcrum Racing 7) --> First class (ROL D'Huez)
2. Below entry level (ALX220) --> Medium class (Shimano RS81 C24)
My main purpose of the upgrades was speed, and in both cases, I was about 0.5 ~ 1 mph faster, and I am happy about it. There might have been other factors (reliability, control, ...) but I had not noticed them enough to tell about.
Maybe I can feel the difference if I put back those lower level wheels.
#28
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,268
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 118 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 50 Times
in
25 Posts
It's hard to describe the difference this upgrade makes, but I really like it. Upgrade to cartridge bearings; they are tight, smooth and "accurate". I was so taken by this, that I bought a Phil Wood BB and I love that too. Life is nicer with great bearings. bk
#30
- Soli Deo Gloria -
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 14,779
Bikes: 2018 Rodriguez Custom Fixed Gear, 2017 Niner RLT 9 RDO, 2015 Bianchi Pista, 2002 Fuji Robaix
Mentioned: 235 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6844 Post(s)
Liked 736 Times
in
469 Posts
I'm going to upgrade this winter(ish) to get a wider wheel.
Will be going from 17.2mm inside width to 21mm.
Will be going from 17.2mm inside width to 21mm.
#31
Life is good
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Not far from the Withlacoochee Trail. 🚴🏻
Posts: 18,209
Bikes: 2018 Lynskey Helix Pro
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 522 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times
in
10 Posts
__________________
The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love. - Psalm 103:8
I am a cyclist. I am not the fastest or the fittest. But I will get to where I'm going with a smile on my face.
The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love. - Psalm 103:8
I am a cyclist. I am not the fastest or the fittest. But I will get to where I'm going with a smile on my face.
#32
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 869
Bikes: 2008 Dawes Haymaker 20XX Leader LD515 TotoCycling Road Bike
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 32 Times
in
19 Posts
Reasons I upgraded to new wheelset:
Half the weight of previous set
Deeper rim section
Lower spoke count [Makes adjusting BB7 pad from inboard side much easier through the spokes]
I like the look of straight pull flat bladed spokes
Nice to have a backup wheelset
Half the weight of previous set
Deeper rim section
Lower spoke count [Makes adjusting BB7 pad from inboard side much easier through the spokes]
I like the look of straight pull flat bladed spokes
Nice to have a backup wheelset
#33
Zip tie Karen
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX
Posts: 7,004
Bikes: '13 Motobecane Fantom29 HT, '16 Motobecane Turino Pro Disc, '18 Velobuild VB-R-022, '21 Tsunami SNM-100
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1465 Post(s)
Liked 1,542 Times
in
806 Posts
Silly me. I claim that you can't buy speed. It's silly to believe simple truths that have been born out of generations of experience.
I suppose that one can buy an improved fit. One can buy better hub bearings. One can buy better aerodynamic form.
One cannot buy a better engine. That must be built, which was the point of the @fietsbob comment...
#34
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 196
Bikes: A few older US made Cannondales, a modern Soma Saga (no longer made, alas!), and one gifted crabon Specialized. Never enough.
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked 60 Times
in
39 Posts
I am upgrading the rear wheel of a Trek 720 disc (my main commuter) due to breaking spokes. When I bought the bike from the original owner, I should have done my homework a bit more thoroughly, considering the 720 comes with 24 spoke wheels in all sizes. For a bike designed as a credit card tourer, I assumed it could handle my weight (250 lbs and getting lower) in the largest size, 61cm. Why not scale up the spoke count by size? The last two spokes were just yesterday on my commute home, for a total of five spokes in three weeks now. The twang of the first spoke happened 15 miles from home, followed by the second twang just at the chosen pickup spot. Thankfully the wife agreed to come get me 5 miles from home and met me with "Order a wheel." Took that to heart and ordered it several hours beforehand!
Ordered the wheel from Velocity, which Rivendell uses for their wheel builds last time I checked. 36 spokes with the Chukker rim, so hopefully it will handle my fat rear end. Being a tightwad I am holding off on the front wheel (no spokes yet!). Or may finally try my hand at wheel building with a dynamo hub so I can toss the battery lights. There is another reason for a new wheel, getting back to the topic at hand.
Ordered the wheel from Velocity, which Rivendell uses for their wheel builds last time I checked. 36 spokes with the Chukker rim, so hopefully it will handle my fat rear end. Being a tightwad I am holding off on the front wheel (no spokes yet!). Or may finally try my hand at wheel building with a dynamo hub so I can toss the battery lights. There is another reason for a new wheel, getting back to the topic at hand.
#35
pauoos
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Loudoun County, Virginia
Posts: 17
Bikes: 2001 LeMond Tourmalet, 2000 Gary Fisher Aquila
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
One cannot buy a better engine. That must be built, which was the point of the @fietsbob comment...
#36
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Here show my story of speed improvement over different bikes and different wheels:
Schwinn Prelude ($250 bike 15 years ago, about 30lb): 17mph on sprint triathlon
Felt S32 2005 (with stock wheel): 18~19mph on sprint triathlon
Felt S32 2005 (with Shimano RS81 C24)): 19~21mph on sprint/olympic triathlon
Specialized Sports Elite (2004, 3x9 speed, Shimano 105): 19~20mph average on 20~30 mile flat road riding
Bianchi Infinito C2C with stock wheel (Fulcrum Racing 7): 20~21mph average on the same road
Biahchi Infinioto C2C with ROL D'Huez wheel: 21~22mph average on the same road
So, in my case, those wheel upgrades were always for speed and they paid me off. My question is whether I could further improve the speed from first class wheels (ROL D'Huez) to top class wheelsets, like Dura Ace C24 or Fulcrum Racing Zero? My guess is, maybe not as much.
Schwinn Prelude ($250 bike 15 years ago, about 30lb): 17mph on sprint triathlon
Felt S32 2005 (with stock wheel): 18~19mph on sprint triathlon
Felt S32 2005 (with Shimano RS81 C24)): 19~21mph on sprint/olympic triathlon
Specialized Sports Elite (2004, 3x9 speed, Shimano 105): 19~20mph average on 20~30 mile flat road riding
Bianchi Infinito C2C with stock wheel (Fulcrum Racing 7): 20~21mph average on the same road
Biahchi Infinioto C2C with ROL D'Huez wheel: 21~22mph average on the same road
So, in my case, those wheel upgrades were always for speed and they paid me off. My question is whether I could further improve the speed from first class wheels (ROL D'Huez) to top class wheelsets, like Dura Ace C24 or Fulcrum Racing Zero? My guess is, maybe not as much.
#37
Senior Member
I consider the following in order of importance: 1 wheels & tires, 2 frame, 3 crankset, 4 components. I restore old 80's era Japanese bikes. The first thing to go is the original wheels. Even the cheapo $135 dollar a pair new wheels off Amazon are superior to most of the vintage wheels I encounter.
#38
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mountain View, CA USA and Golden, CO USA
Posts: 6,341
Bikes: 97 Litespeed, 50-39-30x13-26 10 cogs, Campagnolo Ultrashift, retroreflective rims on SON28/PowerTap hubs
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 550 Post(s)
Liked 325 Times
in
226 Posts
1. Adding a power meter compatible with any pedals and any crankset
2. Adding a dynamo hub so long rides don't require an external USB power pack for my Garmin and headlight battery swaps
What would be expected for intermediate riders (20~22mph avg on flat road) from first class to top class wheelsets?
That speed takes me about 210W. At that power, an extra 7W gain would yield 1% more speed going from 22.0 MPH to 22.2 MPH.
With 70-80% of bike+rider drag coming from the meat bag on top, that's where your big gains are. An aero jersey which fits is almost as good as a skin suit, and still has pockets. I got a nice previous season Louis Graneau custom program Mondo size sample for $45.
Moving from decent (GP4 Season) to better (GP4000SII) tires can yield 15-20W.
Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 08-31-16 at 07:14 PM.
#39
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
My two reasons were
1. Adding a power meter compatible with any pedals and any crankset
2. Adding a dynamo hub so long rides don't require an external USB power pack for my Garmin and headlight battery swaps
At that speed range there's about 5-7W between a modern shaped alloy rim and 50mm deep carbon fiber.
That speed takes me about 210W. At that power, an extra 7W gain would yield 1% more speed going from 22.0 MPH to 22.2 MPH.
With 70-80% of bike+rider drag coming from the meat bag on top, that's where your big gains are. An aero jersey which fits is almost as good as a skin suit, and still has pockets. I got a nice previous season Louis Graneau custom program Mondo size sample for $45.
Moving from decent (GP4 Season) to better (GP4000SII) tires can yield 15-20W.
1. Adding a power meter compatible with any pedals and any crankset
2. Adding a dynamo hub so long rides don't require an external USB power pack for my Garmin and headlight battery swaps
At that speed range there's about 5-7W between a modern shaped alloy rim and 50mm deep carbon fiber.
That speed takes me about 210W. At that power, an extra 7W gain would yield 1% more speed going from 22.0 MPH to 22.2 MPH.
With 70-80% of bike+rider drag coming from the meat bag on top, that's where your big gains are. An aero jersey which fits is almost as good as a skin suit, and still has pockets. I got a nice previous season Louis Graneau custom program Mondo size sample for $45.
Moving from decent (GP4 Season) to better (GP4000SII) tires can yield 15-20W.
I'll change the tire and work on more aero dynamic jersey and helmet. Then, will continue work on building a better engine.
#40
Don't Believe the Hype
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: chicagoland area
Posts: 2,668
Bikes: 1999 Steelman SR525, 2002 Lightspeed Ultimate, 1988 Trek 830, 2008 Scott Addict
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Congratulations. Best post ^^^^ of the thread. All other posters are too busy shouting down others and chest bumping their semantics.
#41
Senior Member
I don't care about weight or performance much, so for me the main reason I had for replacing my wheels was to replace the crappy stock Giant wheels that kept breaking spokes. I bought a pair of Fulcrum Racing 7 wheels about 3 years ago and they've worked perfectly since then with no spoke issues. They're not light, but they roll well and they're pretty sturdy, which is all I ask for in a wheel set.
#42
Hack
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,265
Bikes: TrueNorth CX bike, 88 Bianchi Strada (currently Sturmey'd), Yess World Cup race BMX, Pure Cruiser race BMX, RSD Mayor v3 Fatbike
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 347 Post(s)
Liked 189 Times
in
131 Posts
I upgraded my 700C wheels to 27" alloys - the brake advantage from the 4mm the rim moves was enough to make it a useful upgrade. Going from 700x25/23 (rear/front) to 27x1 1/4 was a good upgrade in ride too.
#43
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Up
Posts: 4,695
Bikes: Masi, Giant TCR, Eisentraut (retired), Jamis Aurora Elite, Zullo, Cannondale, 84 & 93 Stumpjumpers, Waterford, Tern D8, Bianchi, Gunner Roadie, Serotta, Serotta Duette, was gifted a Diamond Back
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 305 Post(s)
Liked 2,038 Times
in
604 Posts
My reasons for wheel upgrades were for the bling factor, this is when I was younger, I got a set of Phil Woods because they were the best.
Now I want to get Phil's for the bulletproof touring bling factor. I don't know any other reason that I want them or what better excuse. I haven't had any wheels fail under my Clyde weight, even when touring or under any normal use.
Now I want to get Phil's for the bulletproof touring bling factor. I don't know any other reason that I want them or what better excuse. I haven't had any wheels fail under my Clyde weight, even when touring or under any normal use.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
TheKillerPenguin
Road Cycling
49
05-26-15 07:29 PM