MacAttack

What would a new bike give me compared to my current bike?
I can't decide if I should just keep the old one for now or get a new one such as the Diverge.

My current bike is a 2010 Kona Dew Drop.
7005 Aluminum Frame, Steel Fork
Sora/Deore, 48/38/28
Avid BB7 Disc Brakes
28 lbs

I prefer a do-it-all bike so the Dew Drop is fine for that. I guess my only complaint is that in my limited bike testing it seems to be quite a harsh ride even with 40-width tires on it.

If I bought a new bike like the Diverge I was wondering if I would notice any huge differences like comfort, speed, shifting, etc, or should I just keep riding the Dew Drop until it falls apart.

Ilbiker

Test ride the Diverge and then decide if it's what you're looking for. Test ride on the same type of roads/trails you normally ride and give it more than a few miles.

berner

It seems to me 40mm tires should produce a somewhat cushy ride. I would consider that those tires may be over inflated. https://www.mavic.com/sites/default/f...echart_eng.pdf There are several inflation pressure guides around. The Mavic one lists max pressures but that does not mean you should use the highest one listed. If you are a mid-weight person, use less pressure than what is listed.

MacAttack

I usually pump my Clement MSO 40 tires up to 80 & then just let them drop for a while until I fill like pumping them up again. They definitely get more comfortable as the pressure decreases.
They're probably closer to 65 right now.

I just got back from test riding the Diverge Elite. Then I came home & immediately rode my Dew Drop.
The Diverge seemed to dull the rough pavement compared to the Dew Drop.
It also seemed I could get going easier, & the shifting was more crisp.
It had Espoir Sport 30 tires on it, so they were much narrower & had much less tread than my Clement MSO 40's, but it was still comfortable.

When I got back home & immediately rode the Dew Drop it didn't seem all that bad to me. Maybe because I'm so used to it.
I think the tire tread is what makes it feel sluggish. I'm not sure what about it makes it a somewhat harsh ride. Maybe the frame, the wheelset, or the steel fork.
I've seen it mentioned elsewhere that the fork may be the issue.

Anyway I'm not convinced enough just yet to spend the money on the Diverge as I'm just not sure if it would be a $1,000 improvement compared to what I already have.
I wonder if my bike would feel less sluggish if I put some 35 smooth-tread tires on it.

I dig the orange Diverge though, so somebody talk me into buying it.

10 Wheels

Just change the tires and ride on.

Ilbiker

Don't listen to the others! What's more fun - new tires or a new bike?? It's only money. Seriously, I'd try some new tires first. No,wait seriously I'd get a new bike. After all it does come with new tires. Lol.

idiotekniQues

Is the specialized frame that much better at soaking up road vibrations? If it is go with it. Otherwise change the tires and save up for a $2,000 road bike next year which should be a nice jump up from the Dew.

MacAttack

If I keep the fat tires in my Dew closer to 65 then it's not such a big difference.

It's hard to justify a new bike because when you think about it a new bike doesn't really do anything.
It would do the same thing as my current bike.

The Diverge would be about 4-5 lbs lighter, have different gearing/shifting, & probably be slightly more comfortable. I'm not sure if I would be any faster on it if especially if I changed my current tires.

It looks pretty damn cool though compared to my old clunker.

I think for now I'll keep riding the old one until I think of a more convincing argument to buy a new one.

It is on sale right now though for $1,179. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

MacAttack

So I have 3 reservations with the Diverge.
I have long legs & a short torso, so bike fit is a challenge.
I went to 2 shops & they both recommended the 61 size even though I'm only 6' 1''.
They shortened the stem which made it feel pretty good, but there is hardly any bend in my elbows on the hoods.

1) I would like to avoid any saddle-to-bar drop, so I was wondering if there was a way to get them level. The 61 size didn't quite do it even with an angled stem.
2) I think I would eventually like 32-width tires "with" fenders, so I was wondering if that was possible.
3) I don't know much about the 10-speed Tiagra. I've read that people are often thankful to have an 11-speed. I'm not a super-strong rider, & I currently have the 3-ring setup with granny gears (although I don't use the granny gears too much anymore).

MacAttack

I was at the bike shop last night & they let me test out an adjustable stem which I think would do the job with a very steep angle.
Gearing should be fine also after talking with them.
So now I'm wondering if it's worth it for me.

I would like to accelerate easier & climb hills easier. The Diverge is about 4 lbs lighter than my Dew Drop.
Would that make a noticeable difference?
My Dew Drop is just fine on the flats, but I start & stop a lot since I'm in the city, and the hills seem to take a lot of effort even after riding a lot & getting more fit.

I still have a few days to decide, on sale for $1,179 until the 4th.

RockiesDad

IMHO this isn't enough justification for getting a new bike. If it was for a different purpose (ie. mountain bike) then that's a different story.

I think you answered your own question here...

Save your money or maybe get a lighter wheelset and tires/tubes. Lightening up on rotational weight makes a whole lot of difference according to my butt-o-meter... It makes for quicker accelleration and might help out with hill climbs also.

Maelochs

Those people are idiots. I am about your size and proportions. I ride a 56.

I know "idiot" sounds cruel, but they are. They are gauging your "proper" frame size exclusively by your height ... and even then 61 is Really big. No self-respecting bike-fitter would make that mistake ... I am thinking they are scared by your height, don't have anything "XL:" but 61, and are trying to sell you that without even noticing that It Plainly Doesn't Fit.

I have written a lot here, as have other short-torsoed, long-limbed riders, about how we are continually pushed to buy gigantic frames which are very uncomfortable, because bike-shop employees are either ignorant, or uncaring.

People with our proportions need tall seat tubes and short top tubes---pretty much the opposite of what most bike makers offer. So we need long seat posts, short, up-angled stems, and spacers---but the Tour de France guys ride stretched out and slammed so bike shop employees cannot seem to understand that fit is more important than fashion.

You can run about two inches worth of spacers under your bar, and use a short +17-degree and have Zero seat-bar drop if that is what you want ... if they will not help you get what yo want, don't give them what they want ... which is to take your money and never see you again. If they cared, they'd listen to you and set you up with something that fit.

Also, and adjustable stem is Heavy. They are meant for a rider to find out which stem fits before actually buying a stem. I assume they used the adjustable stem because they do not stock the right stem and they still want the sale ... and are too cheap and lazy to order one which would actually fit you.

Don't give in. You will find the bike more and more uncomfortable and ride less and less, and pretty soon you will either park it or sell it. Instead, INSIST on trying 56-cm and 58-cm frames. If they won't help, walk away.

I have 10-speed Tiagra on my '84 Raleigh and I love it. Shifts pretty well under load, doesn't take a lot of force to shift, good range of gears without too many big holes in the middle .... but that depends on your chainring and which cassette you pick, of course. As for the basic system, I like it. I'd rather have 105 11-speed .... but really, I'd rather have 105 11-speed triple, which I don't think they even make, so .....


As for Weight ....

people are going to give me a rtion of $h!7 for this but I don't care ...

I just started riding a 16-16 lb CF Wunderbike this week, and I Am Faster. I am consistently just a little faster over the only route i can physically ride right now as my shoulder continues to heal ... but I am faster in the morning if I ride on an empty stomach, faster in a really hard rain storm, and faster in a late-night ride.

I have been thinking about it ... you know how everyone says "The bicycle weight is such an inconsequential part of the overall weight, a few pounds doesn't make a difference ... "

So, fine. But i can still record the numbers on my cycling computer after every ride.

The way I have rationalizing it is" if I were to go for a hike wearing a 30-pound knapsack, I would definitely feel it, even though ti is an inconsequential proportion of my total weight.

If I was to go jogging with a pair of five-pound ankle weights, I would Definitely feel it---even though ten pounds is an extremely tiny proportion of my overall weight.

My new bike is six or seven pounds lighter than my next lightest bike--so, about 25 percent lighter. Simply, it is less load for me to move with my body, no matter how much my body weighs. So ... if I exert equal force to a lighter load, I will move it faster----and I do.

It might only be a minute or two over ten or 11 miles---but it is Faster.

While I am riding I cannot tell what my average speed will be (the computer tells me if I am over or under my average but i don't have time to look) but when the ride is over, i have the numbers ... and I love riding the thing because it Feels fast ...

So if you get a bike that is four pounds lighter than your current bike and has enough gears to handle the hills ... you might actually be marginally faster and/or use marginally less energy to get where you are going. it might be a tiny difference but if you feel it, who cares what everyone else thinks?

So ....

The Dew Drop I think is more of a bash-around tank to beat on, (actually a light tourer) and is notoriously heavy and stiff---not so much a do-it-all urban commuter.

The Diverge takes advantage of a few years of engineering and frame design learning, and offers a nicer ride for less weight--and has a carbon fork (with Zertz)as well---great for muting rattles.. it will do everything the Dew Drop will do just a little bit better ... and you could throw some skinny wheels on it and ride it in a quick group ride or a purely-paved loop if you so chose.

The Diverge is Listed (as in "claimed") at 23 pounds ... a very respectable weight for a strong frame.

In Summation:

Your performance will probably improve Very Slightly with the new bike. Mostly it will probably feel a little better getting up and down hills---and over chattery pavement, and cracks and bridge expansion joints ...

Oh, and it has braze-ons for racks and/or fenders in back but maybe not in for fenders in front .... sorry if that is a deal-breaker, but there it is.

Jim from Boston

A few years ago at the suggestion of my expert LBS mechanic, I had bought, sight unseen, an expensive high end carbon fiber bike, that I love to ride. I too have long legs and somewhat shorter torso, and it fits me well. The CF bike does not (intentionally) go out on wet roads, to keep the drive train clean, and I have a heavy beater mountain bike for that.

This year I decided to get a quality aluminum bike as my beater, and the mechanic recommended a Diverge Elite, that I picked up about three weeks ago. The seatpost was about an inch too short for me, so they got me a longer one, and the fit feels fine.

The punchline is that I have only ridden it about two blocks in three weeks. The weather has been so nice that I always succumb to the lure of carbon fiber. Then, about two weeks ago I got a case of plantar fasciitis, that makes it too excruciating to just mount the bike, even the CF. So I’m not sure when I can give a reasonable opinion. My trusted mechanic’s opinion is good enough for me, and I did enjoy those two blocks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maelochs

…As for Weight....

people are going to give me a rtion of $h!7 for this but I don't care ...

I have been thinking about it ... you know how everyone says "The bicycleweight is such an inconsequential part of the overall weight, a few pounds doesn'tmake a difference ... "

My new bike is six or seven pounds lighter than my next lightest bike--so,about 25 percent lighter. Simply, it is less load for me to move with my body,no matter how much my body weighs. So ... if I exert equal force to a lighterload, I will move it faster----and I do.

It might only be a minute or two over ten or 11 miles---but it is Faster.

While I am riding I cannot tell what my average speed will be (the computertells me if I am over or under my average but i don't have time to look) butwhen the ride is over, i have the numbers ... and I love riding the thingbecause it Feels fast ...

So if you get a bike that is four pounds lighter than your current bike and hasenough gears to handle the hills ... you might actually be marginally fasterand/or use marginally less energy to get where you are going. it might be atiny difference but if you feel it, who cares what everyone else thinks?

FYA, here is my report about the very light CF bike, and speed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston

…My average speed stayed the same, but I think I was hampered by injuries from the accident ,and I believe the new bike compensated at least to maintain my average speed. I did note that I was more inclined to sprint (successfully) to beat traffic lights before they turned red. I further craved the smoothness of the ride, including the shifting,making cycle-commuting more pleasurable. Of greatest benefit, while long (greater than 40 mile) rides took the same amount of time as before, I felt much less tired at the end.

Maelochs

The moral of Jim from Boston's story: If you buy a Diverge and don't ride it, it will get jealous and cripple you.

Stick with the Kona.

builderguy

Since I've only ridden, full time, this summer, I don't have much input.

I rode a diverge yesterday. It felt so good. I'm sure there are better ones out there, bit is was about 8 to 9 pounds lighter than what I have.

I realize the heavier bike, the better workout. But, I also think enjoying the ride is worth it. As I have recently learned. Don't put off, for someday. Do it.

MacAttack

Thanks for all the input. I'll definitely try a size 58 based on what you've said & see if they can get the bars closer to level with the seat (if I still want to get a new one).
The adjustable stem was actually from a different shop & is for my Dew Drop. He said just bring it back after testing out the angle & I could order a real stem. I had a goofy
stem riser on it which I messed up & had to have taken off with a hack saw.

I imagine I'm probably going to stick with the Dew Drop & get some smoother (hopefully faster) tires.
If I find a new bike that I think is perfect then I'll go ahead & buy it.
The Diverge appeals to me (basically a road bike that will take wider tires), & maybe I'll go try a different size, but I won't get it unless it fits just right & I really, really want it.

So for tonight I'm heading out on my heavy, stiff, tank (that describes it perfectly).

ColonelSanders

The things we do.

GeneO 

Nah, that is not true. You can work out just as much on a lighter bike, you just go a bit faster. - it is up to you, not the bike. I enjoy my diverge. Not the same bike but nearly the same geometry.

MacAttack

Just in case anyone is interested I called Specialized today & the guy said a 32 mm tire would easily fit with fenders (I specifically asked about smooth tread).

Today was the last day of the sale, but I couldn't pull the trigger. I really want it, but I can't quite justify it since I already have a bike that works good enough.
I will be getting a new one though, one of these days.

Maelochs

I hear that reasoning loud and clear. At some point "Money is tight and I really don't need it" trumps "Money is tight but I really want it."

builderguy

I still think a heavier bike is more of a workout. Just my opinion. Probably just a heavier weight slower vs a lighter weight with more reps.

It's ok that you didn't jump into it.
I did jump. It was worth it.
Now I'm trying to sell both of my old ones. I will admit, I'm having second thoughts about selling them, but when I walk on the garage, the bike magnets pull me to the new one.

Kedosto

If budget is a concern you should keep an eye on Craigslist for a Specialized Secteur. Somewhere around '13 or '14. Essentially the same bike as the Diverge including disc brakes and similar geometry. I'm not sure about max tire size, but I'm guessing they'll take up to a 32.

Sequoia became Secteur which became Diverge... pretty much.


-Kedosto

Jim from Boston

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston

A few years ago at the suggestion of my expert LBS mechanic, I had bought, sight unseen, an expensive high end carbon fiber bike, that I love to ride… The CF bike does not(intentionally) go out on wet roads, to keep the drive train clean, and I have a heavy beater mountain bike for that.

This year I decided to get a quality aluminum bike as my beater, and the mechanic recommended a Diverge Elite, that I picked up about four weeks ago…

The punchline is that I have only ridden it about two blocks in three weeks. The weather has been so nice that I always succumb to the lure ofcarbon fiber. Then, about three weeks ago I got a case of plantar fasciitis ,that makes it too excruciating to just mount the bike, even the CF. So I’m not sure when I can give a reasonable opinion. My trusted mechanic’s opinion is good enough for me, and I did enjoy those two blocks

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maelochs

The moral of Jim from Boston's story: If you buy a Diverge and don't ride it, it will get jealous and cripple you..

Not so fast there, @maelochs. Actually, this story is having a happy ending. About four days after my post, I tried riding the mountain bike with platform, rather than clipless pedals, and it felt OK. So after the past few days, I put on about 10 miles on the Diverge, and I’m loving it. So tomorrow, I plan on doing my full 14 mile one-way commute.

The ride and shifting is as smooth as the S-Works, but the feel is more ”solid,” with 30C tires. I think this is a great all-purpose bike. BTW, I have to keep one of the three bikes in storage because my wife only wants two in the condo. So I’ll switch the CF and mountain bike, with studded tires, in December and March, and the Diverge will be year round, depending on road conditions (no ice, hardpack snow) .

[Sadly, yesterday I just learned that my excellent LBS of over 20 years, where I had bought all three bikes, is closing soon. When I came home and told my wife, she sincerely sympathized with me. But I couldn’t resist telling her I bought four bikes on closeout (just kidding).]