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  1. #1
    Senior Member
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    shock and horror: my onguard not a very good guard

    Just bought an Onguard ToughChain lock today... and a few minutes ago after reading another thread about bike locks and bic pens.... I gave it the ole test...

    and jeez... I had it open in less than ten seconds with a bic off of my computer table.

    kinda pissed a bit... cause I asked the LBS owner whether this lock was bic proof and he assured me it was....

    guess I just need to demo the technique to him and then ask for my money back.

    back to square one.

    msl

  2. #2
    Drive the Bicycle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MQracing
    ...guess I just need to demo the technique to him and then ask for my money back. msl
    --- Thanks for the alert. Let us know what happens at the bike shop.
    "The bicycle is the perfect transducer to match man's metabolic energy to the impedance of locomotion. Equipped with this tool, man outstrips the efficiency of not only all machines but all other animals as well." Ivan Illich ('Energy and Equity')1974

  3. #3
    The Rabbi seely's Avatar
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    As far as I know, OnGuard does not use cylidnrical locks, so I'm kinda wonder how this is possible? I haven't seen the toughchain, but I know ever OnGuard my old shop carried was a traditional key setup.
    commuter turned bike mechanic turned commuter (also a Velocity USA employee, but this is my personal account)

  4. #4
    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MQracing
    Just bought an Onguard ToughChain lock today... and a few minutes ago after reading another thread about bike locks and bic p[IMG]ens.... I gave it the ole test...

    and jeez... I had it open in less than ten seconds with a bic off of my computer table.

    kinda pissed a bit... cause I asked the LBS owner whether this lock was bic proof and he assured me it was....

    guess I just need to demo the technique to him and then ask for my money back.

    back to square one.

    msl
    A web search doesn't turn up anything on "Onguard ToughChain". There is a ToughWire. Perhaps this is the lock you mean?


  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by seely
    As far as I know, OnGuard does not use cylidnrical locks, so I'm kinda wonder how this is possible? I haven't seen the toughchain, but I know ever OnGuard my old shop carried was a traditional key setup.

    It is a round cylindrical key....

    here is the text off of the factory packaging;

    "Extra high security OnGuard 7-pin, pick and drill resistant cylinder keyway with anti-pick protection"

    "cylinder encased by hardened steel against all kinds of attacks"


    like I said.... i just picked up a pen off of my computer desk, then took the top off, then pressed it into the locked Onguard round keyway... and.... PRESTO.... I unlocked my lock in less than probably ten seconds.

    I went then to OnGuard's website to check and see if they had any announcements and to look up my model. It appears that my model ToughChain is no longer produced (not on their website).

    I think what's really irking me is that I relied on the expertise of my LBS (the shop owner) and specifically asked if this lock was BIC proof.... and he assured me it was.

    Can all of the cylindrical locks can be easily picked this way... I figured that all of the companies probably engineered a solution into their products by now...,

    and the dealer may have been offing old stock on me....

    but I intend on returning it bright and early tomorrow morning for a refund.

    mike

  6. #6
    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
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    It seems to be from 2003. Find a new bike shop.

    EDIT: BTW What did he charge you for it?

  7. #7
    I drink your MILKSHAKE Raiyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MQracing

    but I intend on returning it bright and early tomorrow morning for a refund.

    mike
    As well you should

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziemas
    It seems to be from 2003. Find a new bike shop.

    EDIT: BTW What did he charge you for it?
    I paid $39.00

    I suspect your spot on.... it's old inventory....

    I tried doing several searches to find exactly the same model I bought today from this shop.... and it's one of the longer established shops in a major metro area (Phila)... so I would have guessed the owner (who I dealt with) would have up to date information and inventory to offer....

    the closest I could find to the lock and integrated chain that I bought was at

    https://shop.sunrisecyclery.com/item/11342/

    but their units appear to have the newer bic proof key....

    my TOUGHCHAIN branded Onguard is 100cm (40") long and the chain is 8mm (5/16") cross section.

    the closest I could come (off of the packaging) to an Onguard part number is #45004236....

    and I noticed that most (if not all) of their new product has a part number prefix in the 5XXX range.

    thanks for your pointers everyone,

    msl

  9. #9
    cab horn
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    The guy at the LBS sold you old inventory and claimed it was "bic-proof". Return the lock and tell him you just lost a customer.

    Anything with a cylindrical key is open season for bic'ing.

  10. #10
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    I though OnGuard said they did not sell Tubular locks for 3 years + ?? do they have a replacment program for all the people who bought these

  11. #11
    Kelly Drive Amateur Boogs's Avatar
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    Return that f*****g lock and get your money back. There's no way that guy shouldn't know what's up with the Bic situation by now.

  12. #12
    Huachuca Rider webist's Avatar
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    Why aren't there little piles of chewed up Bic pens at the base of every vending machine?
    Just Peddlin' Around

  13. #13
    You Know!? For Kids! jsharr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MQracing
    Just bought an Onguard ToughChain lock today... and a few minutes ago after reading another thread about bike locks and bic pens.... I gave it the ole test...

    and jeez... I had it open in less than ten seconds with a bic off of my computer table.

    kinda pissed a bit... cause I asked the LBS owner whether this lock was bic proof and he assured me it was....

    guess I just need to demo the technique to him and then ask for my money back.

    back to square one.

    msl
    so if you only read the thread about bike locks and bic pens a few minutes ago, after buyng your lock, then how did you have the foresight to ask the salesperson about the bic pen trick prior to reading the thread about picking locks with a pen?
    Last edited by jsharr; 05-24-05 at 08:42 PM. Reason: spelling
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    Quote Originally Posted by colorider View Post
    Phobias are for irrational fears. Fear of junk ripping badgers is perfectly rational. Those things are nasty.

  14. #14
    Chairman of the Bored catatonic's Avatar
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    for pete's sake it was on national news. Plus everyone has heard about it...even people I knwo that don't bike have asked me if I was worried about my lock being pen-picked...then I have to show them my u-lock has a disc lock in it.

    Yes, return it...find a diamondback/Raleigh dealer and ask to look at their avenir branded chains. There is one particular model that uses a black captive-shackle lock, and it's pretty buff.

    here's a master branded padlock similar to the one used in the avenir chain lock:


  15. #15
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    No 2005 OnGuard U-lock uses round keys; they only use flat keys. Why, after ALL of the threads on this Forum in the past six months would ANY one buy a lock that:

    - Is NOT a U-lock?

    - Does not use a flat key?


    ALL cable locks, regardless of its key style, can be opened in seconds by a person who knows how. Cable locks are NOT for locking bikes. They are for securing your helmet, your bags, your front wheel. AGAIN, there is not ONE cable lock in the world that is as good as the cheapest OnGuard U-lock for securing your bike.

    BEWARE: many bike shops are still selling locks using the round keys. Why? I don't know. One guess: they can buy them really, really cheap. Both OnGuard and Kryptonite are using ONLY flat keys for their 2005 U-locks. If your bike shop trys to sell you a round key lock, you need to shop elsewhere.

    There is no need to spend more than about $30 for a good lock. The OnGuard Bulldog Mini U-lock, placed around your rear wheel (next to the seat tube) and a steel parking meter post, is as effective against manual attacks as any lock sold in the world.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsharr
    ...how did you have the foresight to ask the salesperson about the bic pen trick prior to reading the thread about picking locks with a pen?

    no foresight involved. I had read months ago about the kryptonite locks and the circular keys.... so I was aware of the issue before buying the lock.

    All previous mentions of the bic problem I had always heard of in relation to Kryptonite products. But I had in the back of my mind that the problem may apply to other brands as well. so when the store owner showed me the ToughChain by Onguard I immediately asked him if it was Bic proof. He said yes. I relied on his expertise.

    That evening I read another thread (not even on this forum) about Bic prone locks... went downstairs got my new lock and chain and presto had her open in a matter of seconds.

    It's like others above have said... this lock was older inventory (has a copyright of 2002 on the packaging)... I did not take the time to (shame on me) to thoroughly investigate and evaluate all the packaging on the spot... maybe I should have bic tested it at the dealers counter... but I relied on his expertise figuring he would not steer me wrong.

    Called the dealer today and told him my problem with the lock and he has offered to refund or exchange it for another product. I will take it back to the shop tomorrow (rained in philly today so I did not travel by bike... only a fair weather rider :+)...

    hopefully, tomorrow will be the end of my saga... and I guess it shows that as a consumer you have to really be on your toes...

    msl

  17. #17
    We drive on the left. Dutchy's Avatar
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    At least you discovered the problem with the lock before your bike got stolen, that should come as a consolation.

    I got an e-mail from Kryptonite a few weeks ago, and finally Australia is getting it's roll-out of new replacement locks. I must admit I thought the replacement program would end at the borders of the USA. I am impressed.

    CHEERS.

    Mark
    I'd rather be riding.

  18. #18
    I drink your MILKSHAKE Raiyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catatonic
    f

    here's a master branded padlock similar to the one used in the avenir chain lock:

    [IMGkilled]http://www.securerite.com/products/images/padlock_shielded_full.jpg[/IMG]
    You'll never get me to purchase another "Master Lock" again. They can go shove thier ******* heads up the ********** smelly *********** of the biggest, nastiest ********** deranged ********* on the ******************** planet as far as I'm concerned
    ************** 'em

    Master Lock Run Around

  19. #19
    Telecommunication Tweek's Avatar
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    Master Locks suck, they need to work on making them better quality, I've had a ton of thoes rust up to the point that I broke the key trying to unlock it, such garbage.

  20. #20
    I drink your MILKSHAKE Raiyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tweek
    Master Locks suck, they need to work on making them better quality, I've had a ton of thoes rust up to the point that I broke the key trying to unlock it, such garbage.
    Then you'll LOVE the link I provided above

  21. #21
    Telecommunication Tweek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raiyn
    Then you'll LOVE the link I provided above
    Indeed I did!! Buncha Jerkoffs it sounds at that place.

  22. #22
    I drink your MILKSHAKE Raiyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tweek
    Indeed I did!! Buncha Jerkoffs it sounds at that place.
    That's putting it nicely.

  23. #23
    Telecommunication Tweek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raiyn
    That's putting it nicely.
    Raiyn: Maybe you can help me, my dad asked me if I knew of any bulletproof or pickproof locks for our enclosed motorcycle trailer since we store it close by us now and not behind a gated security storage lot, know of a brand that would be good?

  24. #24
    I drink your MILKSHAKE Raiyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tweek
    Raiyn: Maybe you can help me, my dad asked me if I knew of any bulletproof or pickproof locks for our enclosed motorcycle trailer since we store it close by us now and not behind a gated security storage lot, know of a brand that would be good?
    http://www.lockitt.com/PadlockHighSecurity.htm
    Abus or Medeco. Unfortunately American is owned by Bastar d Lock
    These fine folks sell both Medeco locks AND "Denver Boots" that may intrest you
    http://www.universalboot.com/products/medeco.html
    It's getting crazy early so I'm out

  25. #25
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    Alan
    Is there any independent testing information that supports your claims on the On Guard locks? Or is this just what you have heard?
    If there is something out there please let us know where [apart from company marketing]

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