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Old 01-05-01, 10:14 AM   #1
mike
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On my commute route there is a section where I have to ride on the sidewalk past a house with a ferocious dog.

The owner seems to get some thrill out of releasing the dog just as I ride by. He seems to wait just inside the door until I go by, then he lets his dog out. The nasty yellow canine comes charging at me with fangs snapping, barking nastily and displaying a blood-thirsty desire to rip the flesh from my bones.

The dog is on a very thin leash which is long enough to come just to the edge of the sidewalk. Technically, I guess, he is not breaking the leash law. It is surely an accident about to happen, though. One day some kid is going to be walking just off the sidewalk or the leash will break and it will be a disaster.

Even though I know it is coming, some days it scares the hell out of me.

Once, I yelled at the owner that if his dog broke the leash and bit me, I would sue the socks off of his feet. He just gave me the finger.

What should I do in this case? If I give the dog a squirt of ammonia, is that proper for a dog that is leashed? The dog is leashed, so I don't think the cops can do anything about it.

Looking for your opinions and ideas,



[Edited by mike on Jan 5th at 11:44 AM]
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Old 01-05-01, 10:22 AM   #2
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My advice would be to avoid that block or area. You could tell the police, but all they would do is go tell him what "can, or could" happen if the dog got loose. Technically the owner or the dog has not done anything....yet. Just avoid the area do not give this jerk an opportunity.
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Old 01-05-01, 10:49 AM   #3
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I can't avoid the route

Avoidance would be a good idea, but is not practical due to the poor traffic planning in my city.

I suppose I could take another route, but it would add miles to the ride.

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Old 01-05-01, 10:52 AM   #4
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dog!!

Yes, since un-fotunately it is against the law to shoot both of them, not considering the morality issue. I would re-route my ride before the un-thinkable happens. I had a pit bull nip me on the back of the leg once on a walk, I turned on him and informed my deadly intensions to him, luckly i must have been meaner than the dog, he turned and left.!!!
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Old 01-05-01, 11:02 PM   #5
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Consider other alternatives

That guy must lead a pretty dull life, if loosing his pooch on you is his idea of fun.

First, use extreme caution when it comes to any kind of non-sociable exchange with *any* non-cyclist while riding. Rarely does anything good come from it, and more frequently something bad, or very bad, results. In any case, particularly for a commuter, remember that these are the same cars and people you're going to see every day. Better to try and get on a friendly basis, and then sort out problems.

Since a different route is not a good alternative, maybe you could speed up when going past that guy, so he doesn't see you coming and have time to let his dog out.

Finally, an anecdote from my own experience... Not long after I started cycling seriously, I was hauling *ss down a hill and a dog ran out toward me. I sped up and assumed he'd start barking and running parallel to me, but he didn't! He kept going and ran right under my front wheel. He yelped, and I went airborne. There was no serious damage on either side, but ever since then, when I'm surprised by a dog, I yell! It's not always a planned reaction, just instinct ever since that incident. And usually it works! Doesn't matter what you say. Just a LOUD, abrupt noise that will shock the critter and make him stop and think for a moment. At the least, it'll give you just enough time to put some space between you and him, and sometimes it'll make the beast back off and look for someone else to pick on.
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Old 01-06-01, 01:53 AM   #6
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Get stuck into 'em

Firstly, if the dog is getting dangerously close to you, you have every right to do whatever you like to it. The same goes for the owner. Pick a day to carry a heavy blunt object, and give the dog a thump across the head with it. You've warned the owner already, so it shouldn't be a problem.

As far as being cruel to the animal goes, read the following: -

When the thing gets out and does serious damage to a small child (probably inevitable when the owner is clearly such an imbecile), the local media will be howling (pun intended) for the dog to be put down. What is worse, a thump on the head or being put down?

Alternatively, you could complain to your local police repeatedly (possibly using the picture I mentioned in the "dogs chasing me" thread) or wait for the next council elections in your area and remind them that you are a registered voter and ask them to do something.

Above all else, there is no need to tolerate this sort of behaviour.

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Old 01-08-01, 08:09 AM   #7
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Proceed with caution

I have always made it a practice NOT to do anything to anything to antagonize the type of person you describe. It is very frustrating, but I always figure that someone who acts that way has some kind of mental problems and any overt action on my part would probably result in escalation by the dumbass. Just ignoring the situation as nonchalantly as possible would probably eventually result in the loser losing interest and turning to more intellectually stimulating activities like pulling the wings off flies.
I would probably spring for some kind of electronic dog deterrent just to be safe.
I know this passive approach is hard to swallow, but think about it. On bikes we are very vulnerable. I would be quite easy for someone to do us serious damage or injury. And with any neanderthal cleverness at all, someone in this situation could probably arrange it in ways we could never prove.
You can take some satisfaction from the loser life this guy probably leads and feel sorry for his wife, kids, and dog.
Just my 2 cents,
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Old 01-09-01, 02:39 PM   #8
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Dog joke

Q: How do you make a dog drink

A: Put it in a blender!

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Old 01-10-01, 02:23 AM   #9
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dog attacks

Hey, call the cops. He is harrassing you with a weapon, (possibly deadly), and he's probably doing it to others as well. DON'T WAIT, That leash could break anytime!
Sue the F**ker, you have all kinds of grounds, it won't cost you anything- the attorney will do it for a percentage of the take!

[Edited by pat5319 on Jan 10th at 03:31 AM]
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Old 01-11-01, 08:54 PM   #10
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dog...

Man, I hate dogs. Don't look at them (you know that right?).

I think that I would call the cops, and possibly talk to an attorney about the situation. If you don't get a positive response from either of those outs, I would invest in some rat poisoning and a pound of hamburger meat. Then go by this jerks house one night after he goes to bed and toss the doggy treat out in the yard. That'll do the trick...
I know this is cruelty to animals... blah blah blah, but have you ever had rabies shots? You don't know what pain is until you have shots for rabies. I feel sorry for ya, man. I hope that you can get this taken care of.

You might want to look into your city's laws about how short a least must be to be classified as following the leash law. In my area, the leash has to be 3 meters or less (pretty good size, but not long enough for the flea bag to be able to reach a sidewalk from the frontdoor of a house). If the leash he is using is longer then what the city allows, then I believe you are justified in using pepper spray, mace, taser, ammonia, baseball bat, dog whistle, etc on the mutt and / or owner.

Let us know what happens.
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Old 03-05-01, 02:23 PM   #11
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I sympathize with you. I have not had this problem, so I cannot say for sure what I would do. But I can tell you what I did in a different situation.

I was riding home from work. After entering my own neighborhood, about a mile or so from my house, a car pulled up beside me. They (a driver and passenger, very young) drove along next to me at about 15 mph, making inaudible jokes. Finally, after a few moments, they departed.

Later, they came back and repeated the action. They broke off again, and came back again. Each time, they hung along side me at my speed, without passing.

Though I didn't know of any specific laws being broken, I certainly felt it was improper road behavior and that I should not be subjected to it. As I considered it, I realized that their actions could be considered interfering with the safe operation of my vehicle (bicycle). I called the police.

To my delight, the officer asked me for a description of the vehicle, tag number, etc. Not having obtained the tag number, I gave him all I could. He assured me that if it ever happened again, and I could get the tag number, that he would send an officer to pay a visit to the owner of the vehicle. I was quite happy with that.

So I guess the moral is, don't think your rights aren't important, even if you're not sure there is a specific law protecting them.

Also, people with dog-like mentalities sometimes cower at the presence of police authority. Someone like this may possibly want to avoid the police due to past problems.
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Old 03-06-01, 02:00 AM   #12
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You need the following:

1. A can of dog food.

2. Some cyanide

3. Small shards of broken glass.

That will take care of it once and for all.

Chris

P.S. This was intended as a humourous post. There is no need to write in. I am not condoning cruelty to animals. How's that for a disclaimer Mr webmaster?
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Old 03-06-01, 04:21 AM   #13
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You could just think of it as 1: A cool adrenaline rush. 2:A great way of developing sprinting power
!!! or Just let somebody else kill the K9 piece of crap........
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Old 03-06-01, 09:17 AM   #14
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I don't think there is a lot we can do about this problem in general, there will always be stray dogs out there. But for specific cases I think the best thing is to try and speak to the owner first, then if that doesn't do anything go to the police. If you do anything too drastic that may permanently injure the dog you may be leaving yourself open to a charge, lawsuit or other retribution. Then there is always the frame pump!
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Old 04-02-01, 11:54 PM   #15
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UPDATE!

The problem somehow solved itself. Yes, so sad it was.

Poor dog. Gone bye bye.

Only the thin string collar with the frayed end wisping out to the street remains of the bow wow doggy who only wanted to protect his master.

I hope he was adopted in the night by a nice Korean family with an appreciation for that kind of dog.

Maybe he will be more tender now

- with salt.
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Old 04-10-01, 10:27 AM   #16
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The posts on this thread are mighty encouraging. I don't like dogs and I think most people have no business owning a dog. The poor thing is either cramped in a small yard and wears the perimeter to dirt, or the dog is allowed to roam and terrorize. I'll long since abandoned trying to have a logical discussion with dog owners, the way they cling to their Right to Have a Pet just disgusts me. A dog has its front paws draped over the fence that it could easily hop, it's teeth are flashing, and the owner is saying, Oh he doesn't bite. Right. My buddy calls his bike pump a Hound Pounder. But swinging at a dog in a difficult situation is bad for balance, plus you need the dog to be close before you can bean it on the nose. I am going on a three-week ride and will purchase a can of pepper spray that can produce a long stream toward its target.
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Old 04-10-01, 11:20 AM   #17
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Bruce:

I was one of a couple of instructors teaching a women's self-defense class last week.

One of the instructors brought a can of similated pepper spray manufactured for the purpose of training police officers how to aim the spray.

He let each woman attempt to spray a faux-mugger (with a protective mask) in the face as he approached. Not a single woman came close to hitting the guy even in the body much less in the head and nobody even came at all close to the face.

The point is that if you plan to use pepper spray, you better practice aiming it first. Remember that both you and your target will be moving.
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Old 04-10-01, 11:32 AM   #18
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Thanks Mike. I have to add that to my list of things to do before I head out on this trip. This morning my brand new pannier (the left one) let loose from my rack and got sucked up in my spokes... very ugly. What did I do wrong? Maybe my rack and panniers are not meant for each other. A moot point perhaps since it's badly bent, like my rim and a few spokes. I really am concerned about the dogs and fully intend to be armed with a spray to keep them away. Maybe I'll conduct a few drive-bys on my mailbox for practice, give my neighbors something to laugh at.
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Old 04-10-01, 10:17 PM   #19
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One thing I learned from a friend of mine who was an animal trapper that canines are very weak to being hit on the bridge of the nose.

Trappers go up to trapped foxes and coyotes and clunk them across the bridge of their nose with a small shovel. It knocks them right out. They don't bash the animals head in or anything so vulgar. Then, they kneel on the animal's chest to suffocate it. You may be interested to know that they use this method in order to avoid shooting holes into the pelt which would reduce it's value.

Anyway, I found out that from a moving bike, you can pretty effectively stomp kick a mean snippy dog right on the nose just as they start to go for your leg.

This might be the best defense available to bikers.

Good luck.
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Old 04-11-01, 08:08 AM   #20
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I always like the low powered BB gun. Not strong enough to get stuck in their skin and torture them, but just enough to sting'em and scare them away. You have to remember, you can't leave them to suffer, if you kick a dog really hard and you think he's going to die, you need to take care of that right then and there, not leave him to die on his own.
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Old 04-11-01, 08:34 AM   #21
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A BB gun? I doubt anyone on the side of the rode who watches whip out your firearm will make the immediate distinction between a low-powered bb gun and a regular handgun. If you ride through someone's neighborhood wielding a weapon you're likely to likely to end up in a very, very bad situation. I strongly disagree with the idea of carrying a gun while cycling, be it a bb gun or any other type of gun, it's just plain dangerous. Now, on the lighter side, if there is one, you're low powered bb gun IS going to torture the poor dog when you put its eye out (remember what your folks said, well it doesn't just apply to kids playing catch with a javelin). Personally, I don't like dogs. That aside, my problem with dogs and cycling using ends up being the fault of the owner of the dog, not the dog itself, so I don't want to crack it's head. I just want to spray it with a strong irritant so it will back off. If anyone can recommend a spray that will smart but not injure, I'll buy it for my spring tour.
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Old 04-11-01, 09:26 AM   #22
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This may be a duplicate post, but, how about ammonia? Maybe get a small pump-style squirt gun? (Hey, I'm just brainstorming, here). My concern about
pepper spray is it might be unwieldy in the wind, especially while moving in a larger group--pepper spray is equally effective with people as it is with dogs.

Also, while it may not pose a real problem, I wonder about carrying pressurized cans like that. This may be a
different situation, but a visitor to my home one day was speaking to my wife in the living room, with her car keys dangling from her hand, along with a key-ring-pepper-spray-thingy attached. Maybe it was the heat
from inside her car, I don't know, but the thing blew up right there in the living room. Could have been nasty!

This may sound contradictory, but what about keeping your CO2 pump handy where you can shoot the dog with a sudden blast of cold CO2? Or how about something that makes a sharp, loud, sudden noise? You can buy hose little white cap thingies from fireworks
outlets that explode when they hit the ground. How about one of my wife's biscuits, right across the bridge
of the nose? :thumbup:

New thought, how about some kind of whippety-stick, sting 'im good (lightweight, too)!

Last edited by LittleBigMan; 04-11-01 at 09:03 PM.
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Old 04-11-01, 11:28 AM   #23
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How about a nice chocolate cupcake stuffed w/ laxatives dropped in front of the puppy's nose? Hopefully when they kick in the dog is in the house and the owner has a nice smelly mess to deal with!
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Old 04-11-01, 12:09 PM   #24
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I guess I'm in the minority here, but I like dogs. In fact, I like most dogs more than I like most people. Granted, there are dogs who haven't been properly raised and aren't properly penned and they cause problems for cyclists, pedestrians, Jehovah's Witnesses (heh heh) etc, but I seldom have a problem with dogs when I'm riding.

The most effective repellent that I've found is a loud, sharp "NO" as the dog gets close to you. This seems to work 75% of the time. Of the remaining dogs, it seems to me that a lot of them are playing. They're not chasing you to bite you, but to race. Dogs love to chase, and they think you're in on the game. The trick is knowing if they want to play or eat...

Sure enough, there are a few pathological dogs who will try to knock you off your bike and eat you. Be careful about kicking at them, because they might hang a tooth in your sock, then you're in real trouble. I've tried squirting them with my water bottle and that works sometimes. A bop on the nose with a frame mounted pump ought to work, though I haven't tried it.

I guess what prompted me to post were the messages that suggested poisoning the dog - "dog food and cyanide" or "cupcake with laxative". Just remember that nearly every bad dog is the result of a bad owner. It hardly seems fair to make the dog suffer when the jerk that really deserves it is sitting on the couch watching tv.

Sorry for the long post, but I felt the need to rant.....

carl
(speaking for my current dog, Jessie)
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Old 04-11-01, 12:22 PM   #25
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I see your point, Hogwild.

The next time a dog owner chases me with teeth blaring, I will bonk him/her on the nose instead of the dog. Or maybe I will squirt him/her with ammonia OR, maybe give them a Chocolate "+" cupcake.

Good thinking.
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