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Old 06-11-05, 12:23 AM   #1
Martian Biker
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My NY Chain (or EV Disc lock) was cut!

Hi:

I have been commuting to work by bike since last month. The neighborhood (Cerritos, CA) where I locked my bike is a pretty safe one. However, to protect my first road bike I bought a NY chain with a EV mini disk lock around a metal light pole cemented into the ground.

On my way back home, I usually leave the bulky chain around the pole and use it the next day morning. This scheme has been working well until ...

last Monday, my chain/lock disappeared. Out of emergency I had to leave my bike inside a nearby grocery store for that day and picked it up in the afternoon. I contacted the local sheriffs, and they said they did not remove the chain/lock. If this was indeed done by a crook, what would be his motivations in cutting a lonely chain/lock hanging around a light pole?

I'm not sure if I should continue to commute by ride. Glad that my bike is still with me ...
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Old 06-11-05, 12:57 AM   #2
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Hmm perhaps some drunk guys decided it would be fun to see if they could lift it all the way over the top of the light pole? Apart from that im stumped
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Old 06-11-05, 01:23 AM   #3
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Criminals didn't quit school and become criminals because they're smart did they!
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Old 06-11-05, 01:50 AM   #4
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they probably thought, there's a $70 lock, let's get it!

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Old 06-11-05, 03:20 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martian Biker
Hi:

I have been commuting to work by bike since last month. The neighborhood (Cerritos, CA) where I locked my bike is a pretty safe one. However, to protect my first road bike I bought a NY chain with a EV mini disk lock around a metal light pole cemented into the ground.

On my way back home, I usually leave the bulky chain around the pole and use it the next day morning. This scheme has been working well until ...

last Monday, my chain/lock disappeared. Out of emergency I had to leave my bike inside a nearby grocery store for that day and picked it up in the afternoon. I contacted the local sheriffs, and they said they did not remove the chain/lock. If this was indeed done by a crook, what would be his motivations in cutting a lonely chain/lock hanging around a light pole?

I'm not sure if I should continue to commute by ride. Glad that my bike is still with me ...
This same thing happened to me a couple weeks ago. Some people will steal anything, especially if it's there all night and they've got the means. I was just happy it didn't happen when my bike was there!
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Old 06-11-05, 03:24 AM   #6
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the NY chain, who ever stole it will probably hang it in there trophy room
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Old 06-11-05, 06:42 AM   #7
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Sheriffs don't care about that stuff. Your local Public Works would and most likely took it off with an axle grinder or pneumatic bolt cutters. They're good but not impregnable, or even the best for that matter.
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Old 06-11-05, 08:55 AM   #8
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Did it have a "round" style key? If it did anyone could have taken it.
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Old 06-11-05, 09:29 AM   #9
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No, the EV disc lock uses a flat key. I also called the City Hall, and they told me their Public Work staff won't do it either. I come to believe the crook just wants to show off his arsenal and determination.

I plan to use a quality U-lock (Onguard Bulldog or NY 3000) and bring it with me while riding from now on. Would this be a good idea?
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Old 06-11-05, 09:50 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martian Biker
No, the EV disc lock uses a flat key. I also called the City Hall, and they told me their Public Work staff won't do it either. I come to believe the crook just wants to show off his arsenal and determination.

I plan to use a quality U-lock (Onguard Bulldog or NY 3000) and bring it with me while riding from now on. Would this be a good idea?
Why don't you double up? A U-lock such as you mentioned and a chain or heavy cable. Theives usually carry tools to break one type of lock, not two.

BTW, have you thought that perhaps it was a nearby business? Years ago the street where I lived and worked on installed parking meters in front of the residents houses/businesses. Not liking the idea that we had to pay to park in front of our own houses, we formed the Neighborhood Parking Meter Authority. Several of us went out one night with a Sawzall and cut the damn things down. The neighborhood scrapper was more then happy to haul them away. Anything's possible...

Last edited by Ziemas; 06-11-05 at 10:11 AM.
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Old 06-11-05, 09:58 AM   #11
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Flat keys can be picked in less then 5 minutes by a skilled person. But I think they did it just because they can! OR sometimes the local authorites may not know who might have done it but maybe Public Works removed it since they don't like stuff attached to their poles and left there. This should teach you two valuable lessons though: 1) don't rely on one lock to lock your bike, use a second different type of locks (as Ziemas mentioned) like a Krypto NY U-Bolt or the Masterlock Cuffs or the new armored cable locks (cables by themselves are too easy to defeat); and 2) take your locks home with you!
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Old 06-11-05, 10:32 AM   #12
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That's a lot of work just to get a piece of chain.
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Old 06-11-05, 10:42 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziemas
Why don't you double up? A U-lock such as you mentioned and a chain or heavy cable. Theives usually carry tools to break one type of lock, not two.

BTW, have you thought that perhaps it was a nearby business? Years ago the street where I lived and worked on installed parking meters in front of the residents houses/businesses. Not liking the idea that we had to pay to park in front of our own houses, we formed the Neighborhood Parking Meter Authority. Several of us went out one night with a Sawzall and cut the damn things down. The neighborhood scrapper was more then happy to haul them away. Anything's possible...
What the? Did you try applying for a resident's permit instead of doing something outrageously illegal?
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Old 06-11-05, 10:46 AM   #14
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What the? Did you try applying for a resident's permit instead of doing something outrageously illegal?
They wern't giving them out. No notification by the city was given that the meters were being installed. One day some city workers came and installed the meters. Pay up or move your car. I don't think so.
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Old 06-11-05, 11:04 AM   #15
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The chances that your chain "was cut" are just about zero. Your chain went over the top of the pole, or you forgot to lock the shackle. I've walked past bike racks where a lock was open, next to the bike. Someone got the lock out, their cell phone rang, or something, they got distracted and walked away. A few weeks ago, I came home with groceries, left my bike on the front porch, and went to put the groceries away. Next morning, there was my bike. Still on the front porch. NOT locked.

Lock got picked? Not many highly experienced locksmiths could open the new Kryptonite locks in less than ten minutes. And, a crook with THAT exceptional level of skills would be out stealing Cannondales, not wasting his time and skills on an old chain.

"Cycling Plus" said it took them eight minutes to cut a Kryptonite Fahgettaboudit chain with a powered cutting tool. Took ten minutes for the New York 3000, which is the toughest lock sold in the USA. So, that chain went "over the top" of the pole, or was never fully locked from the git-go.

Over the years, a number of folks have claimed that a top-of-the-line Kryptonite lock was broken, picked, or cut. Not ONE of those people could produce any remnants of the lock...I guess we are supposed to think that criminals are just "neat freaks", who always clean up their mess. "Neatness" has never been a trait of any of the crooks I've known.

Last edited by alanbikehouston; 06-11-05 at 11:09 AM.
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Old 06-11-05, 11:07 AM   #16
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I've known maintence guys that would cut a chain off something just because they COULD - my bet is on a public utilities worker.
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Old 06-11-05, 05:20 PM   #17
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I've known maintence guys that would cut a chain off something just because they COULD - my bet is on a public utilities worker.
Good guess, one of my first thoughts.

The fire dept. MUST have tools to break locks quickly, they have the key to everything. Sometimes police and utility workers too. Maintenance guys do need to use that kind of a tool on the job sometimes.
The wrong tool can be loaned to a friend. Or "borrowed".

My friend the Captain in the fire dept always laughs at my Kryptonite NY lock and also the NY chain. He can cut them very, very, quickly if he wants. If he were the wrong type he could loan out certain equipment.
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Old 06-12-05, 11:22 AM   #18
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... My friend the Captain in the fire dept always laughs at my Kryptonite NY lock and also the NY chain. He can cut them very, very, quickly if he wants. If he were the wrong type he could loan out certain equipment.
I don't think so. I think that five minutes into the project, your friend the "Captain" would be sweating and cursing. The folks at "Sold Secure", "Cycling Plus", and the ART Foundation have access to the best available tools. Using power tools, the "record" for breaking a 2005 Kryptonite New York 3000 is ten minutes...a record set by people who have broken hundreds of locks over the years, not by a braggadocious public servant encountering the New York 3000 for the first time.

And, many folks who brag about their speed at breaking locks use a lock that is sitting on a test bench. That allows many access points using a variety of tools. If the New York 3000 is correctly positioned around the rear wheel, about twenty inches off the ground, and a beefy locking post, it becomes difficult or impossible to effectively use most breaking and leverage type tools.

AND, using "high power" leverage and prying tools that strong enough to break a "gold-rated" lock is likely to cause heavy damage to the rear wheel or frame. The rear wheel or frame will fold or break long before the lock bends or breaks. The thief ends up with a bike he can't ride or sell.

So, the bottom line is: No crook is gonna bother a bike that is CORRECTLY locked with a NY 3000 or Kryptonite Fahgettaboudit. A third of the bikes in a given neighborhood are locked ONLY with cable locks, which means a crook has a wide choice of bikes that he can take in five seconds or less. A crook ain't gonna waste ten minutes on ONE bike lock when he can break about fifty cable locks during that same time period.

Last edited by alanbikehouston; 06-12-05 at 11:34 AM.
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Old 06-12-05, 11:28 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanbikehouston
I don't think so. I think that five minutes into the project, your friend the "Captain" would be sweating and cursing. The folks at "Sold Secure", "Cycling Plus", and the ART Foundation have access to the best available tools. Using power tools, the "record" for breaking a 2005 Kryptonite New York 3000 is ten minutes...a record set by people who have broken hundreds of locks over the years, not by a braggadocious public servant encountering the New York 3000 for the first time.

Yeah, but they dont have The Jaws of Life. Also, Ziemas is awesome for that parking meter story.
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Old 06-12-05, 11:39 AM   #20
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Yeah, but they dont have The Jaws of Life...
Kryptonite ran a funny ad back around 1985, based on a true story. A college student in a small village lost the keys to her Kryptonite lock (an 80's model, not a much stronger 2005 New York 3000). The officer from the village police used every method he could think of to try to open the lock. No luck.

So, he went after the lock with the "Jaws of Life". He broke the "Jaws of Life". It turns out this tool costs THOUSANDS of dollars. So, the ad shows a photo of the student, smiling. And, a VERY unhappy member of the village council glaring at the embarrassed police officer. The village could have bought the student about ten new bikes for the cost of replacing that broken tool.
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Old 06-12-05, 12:08 PM   #21
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I would bring two locks. Get a nice beefy combination lock or something from U-Haul. match it with an armored cable and you have a formidable defense. ANd wrap the cable around hte wheels also, since often wheels tend to cost quite a bit.
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Old 06-12-05, 08:20 PM   #22
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I would bring two locks. Get a nice beefy combination lock or something from U-Haul. match it with an armored cable and you have a formidable defense. ANd wrap the cable around hte wheels also, since often wheels tend to cost quite a bit.
"Cycling Plus" editors were able to cut most "armored cables" in ten seconds or less. Even a cable that weighed MORE than a top U-lock, at four pounds, was easy to cut. Cable locks are okay to protect an inexpensive front wheel, or for keeping your bike from blowing over in the wind. They are NOT a security device. Calling them a "lock" is a form of consumer fraud.

Locating a worthwhile lock is easy. The ones that have been tested and that proved they could stop crooks have earned "gold" and "silver" ratings from the Sold Secure organization. It is silly to even THINK about buying a lock that did not pass the Sold Secure tests.

www.soldsecure.com/Leisure.htm

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Old 06-12-05, 08:30 PM   #23
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Maybe the crooks were just practicing.
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Old 06-13-05, 08:17 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanbikehouston
Kryptonite ran a funny ad back around 1985, based on a true story. A college student in a small village lost the keys to her Kryptonite lock (an 80's model, not a much stronger 2005 New York 3000). The officer from the village police used every method he could think of to try to open the lock. No luck.

So, he went after the lock with the "Jaws of Life". He broke the "Jaws of Life". It turns out this tool costs THOUSANDS of dollars. So, the ad shows a photo of the student, smiling. And, a VERY unhappy member of the village council glaring at the embarrassed police officer. The village could have bought the student about ten new bikes for the cost of replacing that broken tool.

About six months before the Kryptonite lock ruckus, I took an old Kryptonite lock (circular cyclinder) to a locksmith shop. I'd lost the keys and asked them to pick it open for me. The locksmiths (there are a bunch that work out of this shop) tried to pick it open. I picked up the lock, three weeks later, still locked tight.
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Old 06-13-05, 09:32 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanbikehouston
I don't think so. I think that five minutes into the project, your friend the "Captain" would be sweating and cursing. The folks at "Sold Secure", "Cycling Plus", and the ART Foundation have access to the best available tools. Using power tools, the "record" for breaking a 2005 Kryptonite New York 3000 is ten minutes...a record set by people who have broken hundreds of locks over the years, not by a braggadocious public servant encountering the New York 3000 for the first time.

And, many folks who brag about their speed at breaking locks use a lock that is sitting on a test bench. That allows many access points using a variety of tools. If the New York 3000 is correctly positioned around the rear wheel, about twenty inches off the ground, and a beefy locking post, it becomes difficult or impossible to effectively use most breaking and leverage type tools.

AND, using "high power" leverage and prying tools that strong enough to break a "gold-rated" lock is likely to cause heavy damage to the rear wheel or frame. The rear wheel or frame will fold or break long before the lock bends or breaks. The thief ends up with a bike he can't ride or sell.

So, the bottom line is: No crook is gonna bother a bike that is CORRECTLY locked with a NY 3000 or Kryptonite Fahgettaboudit. A third of the bikes in a given neighborhood are locked ONLY with cable locks, which means a crook has a wide choice of bikes that he can take in five seconds or less. A crook ain't gonna waste ten minutes on ONE bike lock when he can break about fifty cable locks during that same time period.

Read the Cycling Plus article again, the part about what tools they use and why. They don't use what I'm talking about. I am not referring to prying or leverage tools either.

The lock tests are done with tools that a crook might carry, something that is not too huge. This test is appropriate for most situations. That's probably what a crook will carry, that makes good sense. The fire dept. does not have that limit. They can use big powerful noisy things. Things that a person in the right profession could possibly use. They can cut them very quickly. It's not in the best interest of cyclists for either one of us to explain in detail about the tools that can be used. I have witnessed what I am describing. I'm going to drop it, I don't want to go into great detail for all to see.

This is not a discussion about a crook possibly choosing what bike to take. You are right, the crook will take the bike with the lesser lock. This is a discussion about a chain that was actually cut. A utility worker thinking that it should not be on the light pole can get that thing off in a minute. He does not care about drawing attention to himself, he is doing something he thinks is justified and probably legal.

The Fire dept. can cut down a metal utility pole in less that 5 minutes !! So can I but they won't let me play with their toys ..

Get back to me after you go to the Fire dept. I want to know if they let you play with the big toys.
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