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Old 06-21-05, 04:30 PM   #1
jrowe
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bike science reading list

What is your favorite source for scientific and technical information relevant to bikes? jimv and bostontrevor cited two sources in their discussion of RR, and these will start the list. This might belong in a different forum, but I want contributions from people like jimv and bt.

Jobst Brandt archives: http://yarchive.net/bike/

Bicycling Science, 3rd ed, David Gordon Wilson.
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Old 06-21-05, 04:40 PM   #2
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I believe Jobst Brandt's The Bicycle Wheel contains a good deal of engineering info on our favorite subject.

It's too bad they took down Keith's Rants, because I believe Keith Bontrager had some pretty good engineering info on his site.
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Old 06-21-05, 04:51 PM   #3
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'metallurgy for the cyclist' is pretty good too, it's posted all over the web http://spokesmanbicycles.com/site/page.cfm?PageID=328
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Old 06-21-05, 04:54 PM   #4
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Bicycling Science : Second Edition
Bicycling Science : Third Edition

by
David Gordon Wilson

lots of technical information and plenty references about almost all aspects of bicycling.

(edit: Sorry! I should have read your post properly. You already mentioned it! )
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Old 06-21-05, 07:55 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrowedc
What is your favorite source for scientific and technical information relevant to bikes? jimv and bostontrevor cited two sources in their discussion of RR, and these will start the list. This might belong in a different forum, but I want contributions from people like jimv and bt.

Jobst Brandt archives: http://yarchive.net/bike/

Bicycling Science, 3rd ed, David Gordon Wilson.
Sheldon Brown. Jobst can be a blow hard at times... and I think he confuses fact and opinion at times.
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Old 06-21-05, 08:17 PM   #6
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Sheldon Brown. Jobst can be a blow hard at times... and I think he confuses fact and opinion at times.
I am also put off by his writing style a little bit, it seems like he talks as a know-it-all, whereas sheldon comes across as just a kooky bike guy, who really knows his stuff.
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Old 06-21-05, 08:29 PM   #7
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this is one of the better threads in this joint for quite some time now. thanks.
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Old 06-21-05, 08:44 PM   #8
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the paterek manual - one stop shopping for framebuilding / geometry / materials / etc info.
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Old 06-21-05, 08:48 PM   #9
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thanks potus - and Happy Birthday if you didn't catch that already.

Is this the book that you started off with in your framebuilding endeavors?
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Old 06-21-05, 08:56 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by potus
the paterek manual - one stop shopping for framebuilding / geometry / materials / etc info.
i have that! even if you never build a frame (and i haven't) it's a GREAT way to get a sense of what's involved in the process.
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Old 06-21-05, 08:58 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by [165]
thanks potus - and Happy Birthday if you didn't catch that already.

Is this the book that you started off with in your framebuilding endeavors?
thanks. yea, the common newbie post on the framebuiler's list... hello. I'd like to build a frame, where do I start? -- read the paterek manual
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Old 06-21-05, 09:20 PM   #12
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Bicycles & Tricycles : A Classic Treatise on Their Design and Construction - Archibald Sharp
Bike Design: Mike Burrows
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truneo that tuned park internal nipple wrench work ??
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Old 06-21-05, 09:27 PM   #13
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this is one of the better threads in this joint for quite some time now. thanks.
Yes, thank god we got it moved out of there. Lord knows we wouldn't want quality to pollute the usual swill we spout.

</rant>

I'm partial to Jobst myself. Yes he comes across as a jerk sometimes, but everything I've read from him is well supported by sound theory if not experience. He's an engineer by training and trade and he brings that to his cycling work. I think he's not universally well thought of due to his insistence on slaying some of cycling's sacred cows.

Sheldon, on the other hand, may come across more likeable, but I know there are some cases where he presents opinion as incontrovertable fact, at least in my opinion.
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Old 06-21-05, 09:32 PM   #14
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Shouldn't this be in the mechanic section?
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Old 06-21-05, 09:42 PM   #15
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Nah. It's bigger than that. Mechanics is part of it. Nutrition is part of it. Human power generation is part (which way to the biomechanics/physiology/metabolics forum?). Things like wind resistance, rolling resistance, materials science--those are also parts.

Speaking of nutrition, did you know that booze is the body's favorite energy source right after sugar? Unfortunately, it puts a heavy load on the liver or we could all be having scotch as our sport drink of choice.
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Old 06-21-05, 09:57 PM   #16
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Yup - that's why it's so hard to use anything but Jameson as my fuel of choice
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Old 06-21-05, 10:45 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bostontrevor
Speaking of nutrition, did you know that booze is the body's favorite energy source right after sugar? Unfortunately, it puts a heavy load on the liver or we could all be having scotch as our sport drink of choice.
In Racing the Antelope, Bernd Heinrich says as much. He's an ultramarathoner, and he experiments quite a bit with beer as fuel for running. It doesn't go well.
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Old 06-21-05, 10:47 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bostontrevor
Nah. It's bigger than that. Mechanics is part of it. Nutrition is part of it. Human power generation is part (which way to the biomechanics/physiology/metabolics forum?).
Also from running (sorry, I used to be a runner), but a great resource in the areas of biomechanics/physiology/metabolics, is Lore of Running by Tim Noakes.
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Old 06-22-05, 08:39 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by potus
thanks. yea, the common newbie post on the framebuiler's list... hello. I'd like to build a frame, where do I start? -- read the paterek manual
yikes!! that book cost $90 after shipping. I'd love to take a look at it because I'm very curious about frame building (i posted a question here asking if anyone knew of a good place in nyc to take welding classes, but didn't get much of response), but that's a little costly for something I might not even pursue. (rather put that cash toward new hubs...) can i get this from the library ?
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Old 06-22-05, 04:23 PM   #20
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yikes!! that book cost $90 after shipping. <<SNIP>> (rather put that cash toward new hubs...) can i get this from the library ?
You can sometimes come across older versions on ebay.
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truneo that tuned park internal nipple wrench work ??
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Old 06-22-05, 05:14 PM   #21
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can i get this from the library ?
Paterek's is unlikely to be at any library. I checked DC & NY Public Libraries and the Library of Congress. LoC won't have it because it doesn't have an ISBN, which generally means it's bound and sold by the author. On Amazon it has an ASIN (Amazon.com Standard Item Number) so they can track it, but it's not, strictly speaking, a published book.
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Old 06-23-05, 02:09 PM   #22
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More art/craft than science, but even with having built wheels for 30 years I learned a lot and enjoyed tremendously, Gerd Schraner's "Art of Wheelbuilding." Well worth the price and the reading time.
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Old 06-23-05, 05:23 PM   #23
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Wow, I asked something similar on the mechanics list a couple weeks ago and they just blew it off... probably did not want a mere cyclist knowing all the inner secrets.

My question basically was about the various transitions of the drive train since about the late 70s and the move from freewheels to cassettes and SIS and derailuers. Also the differnent types of derailuers. Was looking for a history/tech head explaination. Sheldon does cover a lot of it... but in brief, and the web is not exactly a great "read," if you know what I mean.
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Old 06-23-05, 05:46 PM   #24
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Dynamic simulations of bicycle geometry and their effect on stability. Why positive camber? Why trail? Well, you'll see why! (Plus, the answer to why gyroscopic inertia is not a big player in bicycle stability.)

http://www.win.tue.nl/dynamo/bike/bike.html

peace,
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Old 06-23-05, 07:47 PM   #25
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Wow, I asked something similar on the mechanics list a couple weeks ago and they just blew it off... probably did not want a mere cyclist knowing all the inner secrets.
This thread started on the Fixed gear & SS forum.
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