Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-12-05, 08:02 PM   #1
sswartzl
Member
Thread Starter
 
sswartzl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Bikes: GT Palomar, Trek 7500, Trek Navigator 300
Posts: 169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm sure you'll understand my resounding lack of sympathy

"Poll: Many Fear Gas Prices' Financial Hit"
http://apnews.myway.com//article/200...D8BUJDNG1.html

My favorite tidbits from the article:
"I filled up last Monday and it cost me $53," said Gary Spaulding of Fulton, N.Y., referring to his Ford Explorer. "One of the cars we're going to get rid of. We can't afford both of them."

"It cost $65 last week for a fill-up of our Expedition," said Carla Woyden, a mother of four from the Philadelphia area who works part-time.

"It has a rather large effect...It directly reduces their spendable income, because they are not able to conserve their use of gas very easily."

Hmmm...I bet I can think of a way to conserve my use of gas. In fact, now that I think about it, my car gets a fill-up about once a month, and only gets about half the mileage of my commuting vehicle of choice.
sswartzl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-05, 08:38 PM   #2
roadfix
hello
 
roadfix's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Bikes:
Posts: 18,565
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Funny thing is......we, in the USA, pay the cheapest gas prices compared to the rest of the world and have been doing so for decades but it costs more than anyone else in the world to fill up our gas tanks......
roadfix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-05, 08:54 PM   #3
77Univega
Drive the Bicycle.
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Northern California
Bikes: Three-speed modified for comfort.
Posts: 608
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fixer
Funny thing is......we, in the USA, pay the cheapest gas prices compared to the rest of the world and have been doing so for decades but it costs more than anyone else in the world to fill up our gas tanks.:
--- Yeah, and it is going to get worse as the supply of petroleum peaks out. No matter how much the SUV'ers can afford, expensive gasoline will be followed by NO gasoline:
www.peakoil.com/sample/index.html
www.socsci.mcmaster.ca/polisci/gcpr/oilprod.cfm
__________________
"The bicycle is the perfect transducer to match man's metabolic energy to the impedance of locomotion. Equipped with this tool, man outstrips the efficiency of not only all machines but all other animals as well." Ivan Illich ('Energy and Equity')1974
77Univega is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-05, 08:58 PM   #4
FarHorizon
Senior Curmudgeon
 
FarHorizon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Directly above the center of the earth
Bikes: Varies by day
Posts: 3,856
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
There may be some benefits.. The secretary at my client's plant commented that since her truck now drinks $50+ more than once per week, she's going to have to quit smoking to afford her gas bill
FarHorizon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-05, 09:01 PM   #5
womble
No longer in Wimbledon...
 
womble's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Bikes:
Posts: 867
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I've never really understood why so many people in the US and Canada feel the need for these giant petrol guzzlers- as a foreigner, I find it completely baffling!
womble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-05, 09:22 PM   #6
skookum
cyclotourist
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: calgary, canada
Bikes:
Posts: 575
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well it s going to be a long time before there is no gasoline.

Its just going to be expensive from here on in.
I expect we will see the end of the behometh SUV but it will take a few years as people go through the car buying cycle.

I was a kid during the last "oil crisis" in the seventies, I can remember suddenly the much derided Japanese "rice-burners" became cool and the Volkswagen diesel rabbit
became almost impossible to buy.
skookum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-05, 09:43 PM   #7
bransom
Senior Member
 
bransom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: St. Louis area
Bikes:
Posts: 364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by womble
I've never really understood why so many people in the US and Canada feel the need for these giant petrol guzzlers- as a foreigner, I find it completely baffling!
I'm a native-born US citizen and I don't get it either, so don't feel like you're all alone there.
bransom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-05, 09:43 PM   #8
UmneyDurak
RacingBear
 
UmneyDurak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NorCal
Bikes:
Posts: 8,554
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Before everyone starts talking about that everyone should commute on bikes, I just want to remind everyone that it is not always possible. For example most people who work in Bay Area commute to work on a car because they can't afford to actually live within walking/bike distance from their place of work. Public transpartation isn't all that cheap eather. During a semester I take Bart to school, it costs me about 100 bucks a month.
That said I have no sympathy for people who whine about gas prices and then get in to their giant SUV that gets about 15 miles a gallon. Sell that over priced shopping cart and get a car that gets 30+. My next car is going to be a hybrid.
UmneyDurak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-05, 10:09 PM   #9
JavaMan
Senior Member
 
JavaMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southern California
Bikes: 2013 KHS Flite 747
Posts: 1,068
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I know lots of people with huge vehicles, and so far, none have complained about the price of gas within my hearing range. Maybe they know better.
JavaMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-05, 10:23 PM   #10
duane041
Junk Collector
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Libertyville IL
Bikes: 1984 Ross Signature 292S, 1954 Carlton International, 1993 Bridgestone XO-4, 2006 Schwinn Cruiser SSX
Posts: 900
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by skookum
I was a kid during the last "oil crisis" in the seventies, I can remember suddenly the much derided Japanese "rice-burners" became cool and the Volkswagen diesel rabbit
became almost impossible to buy.
I was there, too. Remember the "odd-even" license plate days? They did that in NY for awhile.
I was originally planning on commuting 2 or 3 days a week, but it's looking like it's gonna be 4 or 5 now. Hope I can handle 120 miles a week on the bike
duane041 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-05, 10:24 PM   #11
cydewaze
Emondafied
 
cydewaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Maryland
Bikes: See sig
Posts: 4,792
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
My commute takes 90 minutes by car/subway and there are no bathing facilities at my office. Commuting by bike would be impractical. Good thing I bought that old Honda for $750. Cheap gas and insurance.
__________________

my bike page - my journal
Current Stable: Trek Emonda SL - Trek Top Fuel 8 - Scattante XRL - Jamis Dakar Expert - Trek 9700 - AlpineStars Al Mega
cydewaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-05, 10:48 PM   #12
iamlucky13
Footballus vita est
 
iamlucky13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Bikes: Trek 4500, Kona Dawg
Posts: 2,118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The hypocrisy of these complaints comes from the fact that, despite a 26% increase in prices from this month last year, the demand is 1.4% higher.

Fortunately, they've found something to blame for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Times
Only about a third in the poll said they think President Bush is handling the nation's energy problems effectively, while almost six in 10 disagree. When asked whom they blame most for the rise in gas prices, people were most inclined to blame the oil companies, followed closely by politicians and countries that produce oil.
(Only 7 percent said people who drive gas-guzzling vehicles, 9% said environmentalists)

Meanwhile, viable fusion power is still "20 years" away, just like it was 2 decades ago, and France and Japan are the only real investors in the technology.
__________________
"The internet is a place where absolutely nothing happens. You need to take advantage of that." ~ Strong Bad
iamlucky13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-05, 11:09 PM   #13
UmneyDurak
RacingBear
 
UmneyDurak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NorCal
Bikes:
Posts: 8,554
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
I blame people driving gas guzzling monstrocities for showing Oil companies that hey are willing to pay the price.
I blame Oil companies for raising prices just because they can, and know that American's will pay the price to drive their gas guzzling monstrocities.
I blame the President for a bad foreign policy and for handling the whole cituation very poorly.
That about covers everyone.
UmneyDurak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-05, 11:14 PM   #14
velocipedio
human
 
velocipedio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: living in the moment
Bikes: 2005 Litespeed Teramo, 2000 Marinoni Leggero, 2001 Kona Major Jake (with Campy Centaur), 1997 Specialized S-Works M2, 1992 Specialized Rockhopper
Posts: 3,563
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
$1.08/litre in montreal.
__________________
when walking, just walk. when sitting, just sit. when riding, just ride. above all, don't wobble.

The Irregular Cycling Club of Montreal
Cycling irregularly since 2002
velocipedio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-05, 11:33 PM   #15
kevink159
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Madison Wi
Bikes:
Posts: 90
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
In a somewhat related note, has anyone seen the ad for an Expedition bragging about its increased FUEL EFFICIANcY? I was laughing out loud when I first saw it, then read the fine print at the bottem of the page: 14 MPG city and 18 hwy. I thought I was reading the Onion and it was a joke, but no they were serious. After awhile I quit laughing, and became depressed.
kevink159 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-05, 12:54 AM   #16
Dahon.Steve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Jersey
Bikes:
Posts: 6,834
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by UmneyDurak
Before everyone starts talking about that everyone should commute on bikes, I just want to remind everyone that it is not always possible. For example most people who work in Bay Area commute to work on a car because they can't afford to actually live within walking/bike distance from their place of work.

This is a major problem with California because the Bay area ran out of room since they placed hight restrictions on buildings resulting in over construction of single family homes for too few people. But the jobs did not leave the Bay area so your stuck having to commute by car.
Dahon.Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-05, 01:00 AM   #17
Dahon.Steve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Jersey
Bikes:
Posts: 6,834
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
The real issue in the article was the fact that most of those who responded said they were going to spend less on other areas of their life like dining and travel. It's a sad state of affairs when Americans are so attached to their vehicles that an increase in gasoline prices puts them on the verge of bankruptcy!
Dahon.Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-05, 01:15 AM   #18
scroz
It's so cold out there...
 
scroz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: London UK
Bikes: Trek 5200
Posts: 249
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well get ready for it to get worse dudes, we are going to have $100/barrel crude beofre it starts to come back down again. There are a bunch of contributing factors including hedge fund investment strategies, exploration, quality of drilled product, refining capacity etc. contributing to this and they all seem to be pointing to a steady increase in crude prices for the foreseeable future. Actually believe it or not, its not really dumbass Bush's (or any other politician's really) fault, its factors way beyond the scope of their control..
scroz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-05, 08:45 AM   #19
Kabloink
Senior Member
 
Kabloink's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Central Texas
Bikes:
Posts: 605
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by UmneyDurak
That said I have no sympathy for people who whine about gas prices and then get in to their giant SUV that gets about 15 miles a gallon.
I think you are overestimating the gas mileage of the large SUVs. Try 10 to 12 mpg.
Kabloink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-05, 08:49 AM   #20
Kabloink
Senior Member
 
Kabloink's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Central Texas
Bikes:
Posts: 605
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevink159
In a somewhat related note, has anyone seen the ad for an Expedition bragging about its increased FUEL EFFICIANcY? I was laughing out loud when I first saw it, then read the fine print at the bottem of the page: 14 MPG city and 18 hwy. I thought I was reading the Onion and it was a joke, but no they were serious. After awhile I quit laughing, and became depressed.
What makes it worse is that mpg figure is with the a/c off. In Texas, people drive with their a/c on most of the year.
Kabloink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-05, 08:56 AM   #21
MKRG
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: by a big river
Bikes:
Posts: 2,459
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
No way, Scroz! It's perfectly plausible that everything that's wrong with this world can be attributed to the actions of one man! He is the embodiment of all that is wrong and in a few years we'll just have to blame the next guy. It's so much easier than everybody examining what they can do to alleviate the problem by their own action.
MKRG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-05, 09:20 AM   #22
koine2002
Car(e) Free!
 
koine2002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Dallas, TX
Bikes: Homebuilt Nashbar Steel MTB; 1988 Schwinn Premis
Posts: 851
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have an uncle who is an independent engineering and financial consultant to refineries (he takes his engineering expertise and management expertise and divises a way to maximize profit). We asked him about prices. The main reason for the prices is that we don't have enough refining capacity to keep up with demand. The refineries out there are old and things are breaking down regularly. I asked him if any companies have plans to build new refineries. His answer was there are no plans in the foreseeable future. The refineries are enjoying margins they haven't seen in ages and don't plan on letting them go anytime soon.
koine2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-05, 09:31 AM   #23
skookum
cyclotourist
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: calgary, canada
Bikes:
Posts: 575
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Arcane regulations make it difficult and time consuming to build more refineries.
I'm not saying the regulations are bad, most of them were put there for environmental reasons. It just makes it part of the trade-off.

The best way to ensure conservation and alternative energy sources is high prices for conventional oil. As soon as those high prices occur, the same people that are always yabbering about conservation and alternative energy sources start whining about high prices.

Demand is not inelastic, it will respond to price. The biggest worry is that high oil prices will lead to a recession as has happened before.
skookum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-05, 11:17 AM   #24
Banzai
Jet Jockey
 
Banzai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: St. Paul, MN
Bikes: Cannondale CAAD9, Ritchey Breakaway Cross, Nashbar X-frame bike.
Posts: 4,310
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
My dad works in the energy industry, and warned me about this over 10 years ago, back when gas was cheap and SUVs were just taking off. For the next decade, I always bragged about the gas mileage and reliability of my Honda Civic whilst everyone I knew laughed and talked about their horsepower and towing capacity. (How many times a year do you tow a house, anyway?)
Now, same conversation, and all my friends nod appreciatively. Funny how that works out. The part that gets me is I've been robbed of almost all of my "I told you so's" since all but one of my buddies can even recollect that I've been speaking about this for so long. (Selective memory, I suppose...they want to pretend it's been a big shock, these gas prices. Oh well.)
Banzai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-05, 11:27 AM   #25
Banzai
Jet Jockey
 
Banzai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: St. Paul, MN
Bikes: Cannondale CAAD9, Ritchey Breakaway Cross, Nashbar X-frame bike.
Posts: 4,310
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by skookum
Arcane regulations make it difficult and time consuming to build more refineries.
I'm not saying the regulations are bad, most of them were put there for environmental reasons. It just makes it part of the trade-off.

The best way to ensure conservation and alternative energy sources is high prices for conventional oil. As soon as those high prices occur, the same people that are always yabbering about conservation and alternative energy sources start whining about high prices.

Demand is not inelastic, it will respond to price. The biggest worry is that high oil prices will lead to a recession as has happened before.
The only "arcane" thing in this argument (which smacks disturbingly of Libertarianism, that most vile form of political animal) is the suggestion of a repeal of regulation. There is no more arcane concept in the capitalist world, and there is nothing that corporations would like more. Since the advent of the regulatory state, capitalists and corporations have long sought it's repeal. Why did the regulatory state come about? Maybe because there was ample cause (pause to read history book here) for the citizens of a democracy to exercise the power they had (and in theory still have) over a corporation. But, there is a reason that corporations LOVE fascist governments. Look around the world, and see how much money is being made for Western corporations with friendly fascists to enforce for them in a society without a social contract or any "arcane" regulation.
"The Market" is not this benevolent, omnipotent entity that we should bow humbly before and simply expect that it's machinations will bring about the justice and order that we has human beings should be striving for. Quite the contrary, "the market", in any unregulated form, has consistently throughout human history done quite the opposite. Our economic order is Feudalism, all over again. There is nothing new about that, just as there is nothing "arcane" about the need for a regulatory state. In fact, the very idea that citizens, with one vote apiece, can regulate the powerful...now that's still the newest idea on this planet! That's also why the concept pushed for so long by the wealthy of citizens as "consumers first" is so very dangerous.
Banzai is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:20 PM.