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Old 12-15-05, 04:55 AM   #1
v1nce
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I have seen quite some threads that ask people to submit their ideas on putting together the lightest, fastest, most expensive, etc bike. I find these fantasies quite interesting but the fact of the matter is none of us will probably ever own such a bike. I am not even sure i'd want to! So i thought i'd start a a thread on a bike that (almost) all of us could afford.

One that would last us a lifetime and that maybe newbies could even buy to be absolutely sure they had something "good" that would also retain value. But i don't know if any other cyclists here are interested. I hope so though. So please add your ideas on durable components that are still affordable/fairly widely available. The idea is kindoff a 'Do everything Bike'. A bike that has all the components (pictures would be cool!) necessary for touring maybe but could also be stripped down for going pretty fast. Maybe one day we could even pool cash and build it to show manufacturers and shops what we'd like, but i am just dreaming now. There are complete bikes being offerred that are fairly close btw, what comes to mind is the venerable Dawes Galaxy as well as the German Fahrradmanufaktur. That last bike is real cool, it is MTB bike/24 inch Tourer (nice geometry) sold complete and a Rohloff is an option. Check:

http://www.bike4travel.nl/product_in...roducts_id=336

for a picture and some specs.

Anyway, without further ado, my top picks:

Frame: Surly (Karate Monkey or pretty much any of their common models) On One, Xootr Swift (the drop sliding/track drops will allow you to run any drive train), Mercier, Rivendell, Bike Friday, Raleigh Twenty.

Headset: Tange Levin, Chris King or Torrelli.

Bar: Nitto Noodle Drop of a Nitto Albatros.

Bottle Cage(s): American Classic

Back Rack: MountainRack I or II (still affordable unlike say Tubus, time tested and classic).

Chain: Stainless Steel,.. SRAM?

Drivetrain possibilities: Dual Drive, SRAM 7 speed, SRAM X 9,0 or,...?

Hubs: IRO, Surly etc, probably not Phil Wood since cost would rise dramatically.

Kickstand: Esge Pletscher, double stand or the lighter single Aluminium one.

Saddle: Brooks Flyer or B 17 (or all the rest are SEATS trying to do a Saddles' job & failing).

Tires: Marathon Plus or Vredestijns'.

Pump: Zefal HPX 4 (a classic)

Panniers: Carradice! Prefer them a lot to Vaude or Ortlieb myself.

Pedals: Hmmm, something with industrial bearing and one side SPD one side normal, either that ore PowerStraps with some real good flat pedals.

Spokes: Stainless steel.

Last edited by v1nce; 12-15-05 at 05:53 AM.
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Old 12-15-05, 05:25 AM   #2
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What you describe is pretty much what I was going for when I built my bike. I have stripped her down and fitted my Shimano R550 wheels to do a sub 5 hour century, pacelining at 30+mph (and taking pulls) with C and D grade racers, no problems. Yet as you see her she is my daily commuter, which untill recently was 60 miles a day, it's now only 35 - 40 miles a day. After 4000 miles she's 100% reliable.


Frame - Surly LHT in Green

Wheels - Shimano Deore LX hubs 36 spoke, laced to Mavic M319 rims with Alpine Swiss DTIII forged spokes

Tyres - Continental Ultra Gatorskins 28mm

Brakes - Shimano Deore LX V-brakes

Drivetrain - Shimano Deore LX triple crank, 9 speed LX casette 11-34, shimano chain, Deore LX F&R derailleurs

Pedals - Shimano M520 SPD

Shifters - Dura-Ace barends

Brake levers - DiaCompe 287V

Headset - Ritchey pro comp with casette bearings, like Chris Kings but without the price tag

Bars - Profile cowhorns with Profile airstryke aerobars

Seatpost - Oval Concepts

Seat - Specialised Avatar Gel

Pump - Topeak Road Morph

Rack - Topeak

Trunk Bag - Topeak

Panniers - Vaude

And ofcourse, full fenders - SKS


....here's a couple of pics

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...tachmentid=933

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...tachmentid=934
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Old 12-15-05, 05:49 AM   #3
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Holy **** the grail is out there!! Nah man, seriously nice ride! Dunno about that saddle though ha ha, i am Brooks Militant, how the heck do you handle many hours touring on a !gel! *shudder* saddle? Aren't you sore and chaffed? Cool to get a reply (so soon). Some nice picks for components that i will def. explore. I am editing my first post to add some thing forgot.

Also about the Ritchey headset, you sure? How long you had it? Many Ritchey models (not that particular one) get totally trashed and hated on on review sites...?

Last edited by v1nce; 12-15-05 at 06:14 AM.
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Old 12-15-05, 07:59 AM   #4
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nothing lasts forever!

I have a 25 year old schwinn that seems to ride really well, and I pull in roadies with it. It has baskets and a bell, and have thought about riding it in the Seattle to Portland ride.

Durable and affordable, well, you could give up bicycling and take up rock gardening.

Your weak points are always going to be the componentry and the wheels, so a bike like a Worksman is a great american lasts-a-lifetime bike, but you sure don't want to be riding a paceline with it.

Stock bikes that might qualify....

Kona Smoke (26" wheelset), Trek 520 (700c wheels).

My LHT would be my choice for the ultimate durable bike I have right now... but to think it will never need new parts in the gruppo is short sighted. And it's not a racer, so for a person with a go fast bias, and less of a heavy hauling bias, might want a lighter bike.

LHT

Phil wood 36f 48r hubs, dyad rims, DT spokes

XT, barcons, Br550 brakes, levers...

Cane Creek Headset, Sugino crank.

Fully stacked and racked with tubus racks, cages, and nifty accessories.

After xmas I'm going to get a dynohub laced up and add a generator light system.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's a pic of a pretty much stock Trek 520, with a Brooks B17 and 700x37c tires.... at 52x11 gearing, this bike is as fast as I want to make it!
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File Type: jpg trek520.jpg (16.3 KB, 110 views)

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Old 12-15-05, 09:13 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by v1nce
Dunno about that saddle though ha ha, i am Brooks Militant, how the heck do you handle many hours touring on a !gel! *shudder* saddle? Aren't you sore and chaffed?
Well the Specialized Avatar Gel isn't the big thick poofy gel saddle you are thinking of. Barely any gel...just enough for some shock absorbtion. I rode one of these all year and it is very comfortable even on 7 hour suffer fests...no chaffing and no numbness.



You seem to be talking about my daily bike but I don't think I am quite to the perfect place with it yet. Currently I ride an 03 Marin Mill Valley with some modifications. Original bike cost me $468 shipped off of eBay but I dumped the wheels in favor of some 105 hubs laced to Salsa DelgadoX rims for durability, upgraded the crank and BB with an Ultegra triple that was coming off another bike, added a rack and panniers and swapped out the saddle. In truth I would really like to get a steel frame on this bike but I need a compact geometry to hook up my son's trailer bike and I haven't found an off the shelf frame in steel that is setup similarly yet....I may just get one done custom next year. I have removed the big ring as I never use it and plan on getting a Salsa Crossing Guard if I can ever find one in 130mm BCD (they do make it but have been sold out for months ), it also needs a new headset so the King from my Salsa will be moving over since I am selling the Salsa.

Here she is before the new crank and saddle...I really need to get some new photos.

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Old 12-15-05, 02:25 PM   #6
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Moots YBB semi-hardtail MTB with Rohloff and XTR V-brakes.
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Old 12-15-05, 04:03 PM   #7
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Thanks for those replies and for explaining about that saddle. All nice bikes you guys are suggesting, though to keep it affordable i'd say the frame shouldn't cost more than $ 1000 or so. Cool.

Btw i wasn't suggesting we could pass on our bikes to our Grandchildren without replacing components now and then. I am just trying to find out which components are likely to last the longest and give the least trouble and still not be made out of 'unobtanium' or in 'la la land'.

How about second hand suggestions? Certain Trek frames that are sold often and cheap and are real durable, or..?

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Old 12-18-05, 11:43 AM   #8
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My Jamis Nova has served me quite well. I have used it for commuting as well as loaded touring and it has always been reliable. 36 spoke bomb proof wheels and plenty of tire clearance. Pictured before adding racks, and changing the drivetrain over to a 105 triple setup. Also changed Ritchey Speedmax's out for Panaracer TourGuards. No flats to date.
Maybe not the ultimate, but certainly durable and affordable.

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Old 12-18-05, 11:51 AM   #9
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But wait! Didn't the title say AFFORDABLE??? These bikes mostly are out of the average-wage-pay-guy's reach....
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Old 12-18-05, 12:06 PM   #10
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Well that Jamis Nova can be had for about $ 1000, i'd say that is fair enough. Affordable is of course relative. But of the average person has to save up for 3 to 12 months to get a nike that will last (frame, non moving components and some of the moving ones too) 10 to 50 years i'd say that is fairly affordable. I picked the frames i did for example because they really are afforfable for their qualities. Having said that a complete bike is almost always a better deal and can then also be altered.

A second hand bike can be the best deal of all. A decent rigid Trek, Peugeot, Batavus, Gaint etc. bike can be had from $ 10 to $ 100 and a Surly or On-One frame will not be somewhat better and more versatile but not way better.
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Old 12-18-05, 05:58 PM   #11
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Quote:
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But wait! Didn't the title say AFFORDABLE??? These bikes mostly are out of the average-wage-pay-guy's reach....
Siu, if you look at the price of exotic carbon + Dura-ace/Record racing bikes or even the cost of buying and running your average car then don't you think these utility bikes are relatively cheap?
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Old 12-18-05, 06:02 PM   #12
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Welllllll, yes, if you put it that way......

I guess affordable is in the eye of the wage earner. It would take me YEARS to save up for a Moots (which is my dream bike) And the Rigor at that.

My current bike is not even paid off yet, and it was "off the shelf"......
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Old 12-18-05, 06:06 PM   #13
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Durable AND affordable? ANYTHING (ah say, ah say ANYTHING!!) by Kona!

You want more durable and affordable - look at used steel-frame bikes from the 70's and early 80's. They're all durable, and to get them affordably, look at garage sales, police auctions, and trash piles.
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Old 12-18-05, 06:48 PM   #14
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Quote:
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Welllllll, yes, if you put it that way......

I guess affordable is in the eye of the wage earner. It would take me YEARS to save up for a Moots (which is my dream bike) And the Rigor at that.

My current bike is not even paid off yet, and it was "off the shelf"......
Moots.... yummmmm....all I can say is that you have fine taste

Is that your Kona in your avatar? that's a sweet ride.... and very nicely modelled
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Old 12-18-05, 07:32 PM   #15
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i am Brooks Militant, how the heck do you handle many hours touring on a !gel! *shudder* saddle? Aren't you sore and chaffed?
This is something that Brooks Militants don't seem to understand. Most of us are comfortable on modern, no maintenance saddles. I have ridden perfectly comfortable centuries on my $25 Performance saddle and never once had to rub it with Proofhide, break it in, cover it with a shower cap in the rain, or tighten it up because it became swaybacked.
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Old 12-18-05, 08:07 PM   #16
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@ Olebiker, i understand what you are writing perfectly i just don't agree/see it completely differently. There are loads of threads (some i have contributed to at length) in which your concerns are discussed. I don't really fancy debating the merits/probs. of Brooks and other seats here though if you want me to reply to your statement elsewhere i will.

Back on topic: How about IRO's, don't they make some good Frames and completes for a reasonable sum?

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Old 12-18-05, 08:39 PM   #17
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This 'ultimate' road bike will eat your bike for breakfast, load it up, ride a century with it in the panniers, and spit it out for dinner at the end of the day.....
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Old 12-18-05, 09:00 PM   #18
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This 'ultimate' road bike will eat your bike for breakfast, load it up, ride a century with it in the panniers, and spit it out for dinner at the end of the day.....
Hmmm.. looks like a nice setup there Bek , how about a components inventory?

What lights do you use?

Those bars (any road bars) would kill my cts-riddled wrists in an hour which is why I have the aeros. The front rack setup looks interesting, please tell us more.
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Old 12-18-05, 09:10 PM   #19
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@ Cycleholic, when i looked at your pics i coulnd't help but notice you are running 3! Ciusse Elite bottle cages. I recently bought one because i thought they looked Bombproof (fat welds and thick tubing) but then i read some reviews online. They are said to crack at the weld fairly quick and people advice the American Classic instead as the one to last forever. How long you had those and are they the Stainless Steel variant or the Alu (i think the stainless might last..)? I think the design is flawed in that they have a weld to begin with but especially because the weld is on one side of the tube only. Not a huge deal though as you have three and it could take some time before the first one goes. But i like buying for life whenever possible.

@ Bekologist, nice to see some taste and class! Anyone running a Surly with a Brooks Flyer, A Zefal HPX, Brifters and an Esge Pletscher kickstand knows what he is doing damnit! Nice one.

I personally would skip the Ortliebs (check my thread on homemade yet waterproof Bucket paniers) because of the expense. I'd also skip the Krypto (see my other thread for even better/more versatile locks). What brand are those extra long fenders and huge mudflap?! Like them lots.

Total cost estimation/break down for that rigg?....!
Are those Racks Tubus or...?

Last edited by v1nce; 12-18-05 at 09:48 PM.
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Old 12-18-05, 09:19 PM   #20
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Durable AND affordable? ANYTHING (ah say, ah say ANYTHING!!) by Kona!

You want more durable and affordable - look at used steel-frame bikes from the 70's and early 80's. They're all durable, and to get them affordably, look at garage sales, police auctions, and trash piles.

Now you're talkin' my speed!
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Old 12-18-05, 09:19 PM   #21
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the important bits are phil wood 36f 48r hubs laced to Velocity Dyad rims, BR550 cantis, XT 'railers ; 24-36-46 Sugino 175mm, maybe I want a 48 ring, 11-34 in the back.

The front rack is just a Jannd lowrider, its very sturdy, and keeps the weight in a nice spot, not too low for single track and great handling at speed. Tubus Cargo in the back.
For 2006 I'm looking to set up one of those new ultegra level Shimano dynohub laced to a dyad 36f, with a couple of lights, but have been using a 4.5V Petzl Halogen headlamp and a Black Diamond supplemental LED one because battery life is much better that standard bike headlight systems. I always run a big front white blinkie but always try to operate with soley ambient light as much as possible. I don't like to tour in the dark anyway, I don't think its wise, but its tough to avoid this time of year.

Here's a picture of one of the fender flaps, home cobbed, made them for both wheels...
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Old 12-18-05, 09:21 PM   #22
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Moots.... yummmmm....all I can say is that you have fine taste

Is that your Kona in your avatar? that's a sweet ride.... and very nicely modelled

Yes, that's my "Serenity" (and affordable, too!). Moots - I'd say in about 3 years I might be riding one.
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Old 12-18-05, 09:28 PM   #23
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Damn you Kona!! Their webpage works like Caca, can't see the bikes *sniff*.. How much do Kona's completes and Frames only cost? (Ball park).

I can get an On One Inbred frame with Sliding drops (almost any drivetrain) here for under E 400, also you can run almost any brake type too, i'd say that'd qualify for (fairly) affordable. ->

http://www.on-one.co.uk/index.php?mo...position=60:60

Of the older steel frames, Maybe Peugeot PX-10 is a winner?

Last edited by v1nce; 12-18-05 at 09:38 PM.
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Old 12-18-05, 09:40 PM   #24
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Holy **** the grail is out there!! Nah man, seriously nice ride! Dunno about that saddle though ha ha, i am Brooks Militant, how the heck do you handle many hours touring on a !gel! *shudder* saddle? Aren't you sore and chaffed? Cool to get a reply (so soon). Some nice picks for components that i will def. explore. I am editing my first post to add some thing forgot.

Also about the Ritchey headset, you sure? How long you had it? Many Ritchey models (not that particular one) get totally trashed and hated on on review sites...?
Yeah, I've heard some negatives about most of the low end Ritchie headsets but the pro comp gets rave reviews, its a totally different animal.

I'll take a Brooks militant over a VC militant any day but seriously, like Grasschopper said it's not one of those squishy things. I've done 7 hours straight on that seat with no chaffing or saddle sores.
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Old 12-18-05, 10:06 PM   #25
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Hmm sounds like a winner that saddle, gets pretty good reviews over at Roadbikereview (not that i take that site as the holy truth but it is quite a good indicator).

I am missing something though what is "VC militant" ? I don't see any Victor Charlie around here..?
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